Insane Clown Posse
Interview with Violent J by Black Dog Bone
The Juggalo movement has been growing; it’s real big now. Did you see
it becoming what it is now?
It was never something we planned out. I don’t think anybody could ever
plan out something like that. Never in our wildest imaginations
did we see this coming. Juggalos are way bigger than ICP. They’re way
bigger than anything we do. It’s a culture. We’re just happy that they
endorse us, that they embrace us. We’re happy that they love our music.
If our music somehow helped form what a Juggalo is I’m extremely proud
of that. I’m a Juggalo and I’ll be a Juggalo until I die. It says it
on my left arm, a tattoo that says I’m a Detroit Juggalo, and I mean
that for life.
The Juggalo movement came out of Insane Clown Posse—your music and your
image—and then it grew into something of its own.
That’s the way I see it. Juggalos started with ICP and now it’s grown
into its own culture. It’s still very much a part of ICP, but there are
other groups that Juggalos follow. A Juggalo is not just a fanbase of
ICP. A Juggalo is a way of life. I believe Juggalos are music lovers
with big imaginations. In other words, it takes more than just a fancy
hook in a song to make Juggalos happy. There has to be more to the music,
more entertainment, more to discover, more mystery. The music has to
be deeper. Juggalos have bigger brains…
Bigger dicks and bigger tits!
Exactly!
The Juggalos is very much like a tribe. It’s like this wandering tribe
who gather every year at a sacred place to have a ritual. It’s an ancient
thing for humans.
It’s similar to the Grateful Deadheads, but they’re very modern. They’re
very new age and representing what the world’s about today. They’re not
afraid to travel and explore; they’re not afraid to leave their hometown.
They’re more adventurous than other people. They’re extreme people.
In tribal societies you have the Shamans who heal people by chanting
and playing drums. Also they were really into decorating themselves—face
paint, body paint, wearing masks—all of those are key to shamanic
rituals. The closest thing I see to that in America now is the Juggalos.
I agree with you completely. It’s part of us as humans. Ancient tribes
did all that, and you see it happening today with the Juggalos. People
want to get together; they want to be part of a movement. You can call
them Juggalos, but they’ve probably been around forever.
It’s the primal instinct in us, primitive, nomadic wanderers, free spirits.
But society and school try to program you to work for the system and
just be in the grid, be like everybody else. The Juggalos are not in
the grid, they’re rejecting all the programming. Juggalos are free spirits.
Juggalos think for themselves. Juggalos have their own minds. They don’t
go with the masses, they don’t go with the flow, they don’t go with the
“top ten”. They’re not part of mainstream society. They don’t care if
the whole world says fuck you to one thing. If Juggalos like it they’ll
stand behind it. Juggalos have a hard time. Like younger Juggalos who
are in high school—a lot of kids in school fuck with Juggalos, pick on
‘em. They don’t understand it so they make fun of it. But Juggalos defend
what they like. They don’t just go with the flow, they have their own
opinions, they’re stronger people. It’s tough to be a Juggalo. They support
what they love. We’ve been fortunate throughout our whole career we’ve
had Juggalos standing behind us. Believe me, they’re the best people
in the world to have behind you. I would say one Juggalo is worth a thousand
regular fans!
Did you anticipate the Juggalo movement would become so big?
It’s just so weird. It just happened. And it’s still happening. There
are still people becoming Juggalos every day. We went to Australia in
2005 and there were Juggalos everywhere! I couldn’t believe it. I could
not fuckin believe it. We did some in-stores, we did concerts, we did
Melbourne, we played Sydney, we played all over Australia. There were
Juggalos chanting the same things and dressing the same way as American
Juggalos. It just was incredible! To ask a question like, how did it
happen and how did it spread? I couldn’t tell you. That’s where the magic
is. It’s truly magic. It’s not something even a group of fuckin scientists
could ever figure out. The masses of Juggalos, they could not be analyzed
by any psychiatrists. It’s just a mystery. Juggalos are a magical people.
Why is it that at the Gathering of the Juggalos we have 10 thousand plus
Juggalos there, all weekend long, performing for 4 nights. There’s no
police on the grounds. Most people are drunk or high in some way, and
there’s not one fight. Not one fight happens. It’s a love amongst total
strangers. The know they have something in common. All the scientists
in the world could try to figure what that is, but I feel it’s a very
real magic that happens between Juggalos. Juggalos love each other. It’s
like brothers and sisters you never knew you had until you’re there.
They got their arms around each other, they’re singing a chant together.
It’s unlike anything in the fuckin world.
ICP’s music is supposed to be Horrorcore and wicked and dark. Do you
think the Juggalos gravitate to you because they like the lyrics you’re
singing in your songs about serial killers and psychopaths?
I think they enjoy the entertainment of all that wicked shit, the serial
killers and all that. But what I think they really love is the hidden
messages behind it all. Like what the Dark Carnival means and what the
Joker Cards are really about. I think that’s what brings people together
as far as ICP. It’s entertainment. It’s like a good fuckin Kung Fu movie
where a bunch of guys get their heads cut off. It’s great fun. But in
the end, what did the movie really mean? There might be a love story
behind it. What’s funny is that there’s so much love among Juggalos,
but they love the most ruthless music ever made. It’s violent music,
but it brings them together in a brotherhood.
Humans have many different sides, but civilized society tries to streamline
us and put us in a box. Only one side of us is allowed to develop. Juggalos
have stepped outside of that and become better people than your typical
businessman/politician. A lot of times Juggalos have been labeled as
a gang. I would trust a Juggalo any day over trusting a well-mannered
well-trained member of this society.
No doubt. Juggalos are creative people. For ICP what’s changing in our
world is we don’t get as many bad reviews as we used to get. We’re not
as hated as we once were. I’ll tell you why. Because Juggalos are growing
up and they’re landing in these positions of power. Juggalos are becoming
writers. Juggalos are becoming program directors. Juggalos are becoming
voices in the world, and we’re starting to see love in places we never
saw before. It’s almost like a secret society. Like if you walk into
a restaurant and you happen to have a hatchet man charm on or something
and another Juggalo is your waiter and he recognizes that, he’ll give
you a discount. That’s a small example, but it goes on up to other things.
Maybe a Juggalo is a policeman and he pulls you over an sees that you’re
a Juggalo and he lets you go. Juggalos are becoming adults. For example
there was a Juggalo that made a movie in Hollywood. The movie was called
“Be Cool”, and the director was a Juggalo. He put ICP stuff all throughout
the movie. He had like a cardboard cutout of us in the movie. He had
our Shangri-la poster in another scene. Juggalos are showing up in different
places. They’re the movers and shakers of the world. They’re not bums,
they’re not losers. Juggalos are the farthest thing from bums and losers—they’re
winners. They’re not fuckin drug addicts and nobodies.
It was the same way for Murder Dog when we first started. We were an
independent voice and we were outside of the mainstream. Now Murder Dog
readers are in positions of power and they recognize the power of Murder
Dog.
Murder Dog is a perfect example of what we’re talkin about. 100%. I’ll
tell you something about Murder Dog. Murder Dog is the shit because it’s
the voice of the people. It covers Juggalos, it covers the entire underground
music scene. That’s powerful. How did ICP land on the cover of a bomb-ass
magazine like Murder Dog? It’s because there’s Juggalos at Murder Dog.
Juggalos ended up writing for Murder Dog and it’s kick-ass! It’s fuckin
devastating. We see the Juggalo movement growing bigger all the time,
and it’s so great to be part of something like this.
In the Twiztid interview they were saying if you get fired from your
job and you want to kill your boss, they’ll do that for you in their
songs. Sometimes you get frustrated and feel angry. We all feel that
way. When people listen to your music it helps them deal with that anger
or violence, it balances it out.
Let us vent that anger for you. Oh yeah! Juggalo music is a healing thing
for Juggalos. It relaxes you. We all have the same problems. Juggalos
share the same shit. We’re underdogs because we’re different. Like how
Murder Dog was a magazine that was different from other magazines. We’re
trying to do something innovative, do something new and fresh in the
world. And everybody else is tryin to shut you down. All the anger that
comes up, that shit can be dealt with through the music. You don’t have
to go out and kill somebody, you can put our CD in and get that anger
out.
The truth is that ICP does is helping to solve problems in this society,
not creating problems. It’s not just music here. A lot of people can’t
see the depth of the Juggalo movement. It’s helping and uplifting a lot
of people.
I know exactly what you’re saying and I agree. One of the new things
ICP’s tryin to do, which we’ve never done before, is we’re tryin to open
up about our own personal problems, between me and Shaggy 2 Dope. Like
Shaggy 2 Dope has personal issues, and I have personal issues. We want
Juggalos to know about them, because we want them to know that if they
have problems they’re not alone. We have problems too. Our music has
always been there to help people through their troubles. But we want
them to know that we’re not alone. Whatever you’re going through in life,
there’s other people goin through the same thing. Like me, I get really
bad panic attacks. One of the things that helped me out was knowin that
there’s so many people besides me having panic attacks. That made it
easier to deal with.
What do you mean by panic attack?
It’s like something happens in my head and I get overwhelmed with emotion.
I can’t breath and I feel fear. It’s like a mental breakdown, like a
nervous disorder. I get it cause I’m stressed. Me personally, I worry
a lot. I worry about our music and everything. It builds up on the brain
and then sometimes I have a meltdown, a shutdown. It’s really hard to
deal with. But I started talkin about it in my music, and next thing
you know Juggalos are coming up to me right and left sayin, “I get panic
attacks too; I’m also on medication for panic attacks.” It helps to know
other people are experiencing the same thing. It doesn’t matter how good
your life is, everybody has problems.
I wonder why you would get stressed out about your music? You are very
successful with your music, you have a large following, and you are doing
something very unique. Why do you feel like this?
It’s just the way life is. Look at Elvis Presley. Why did Elvis Presley
die of drugs. He had a lot of stress. He was the King of Rock & Roll,
but he wasn’t happy. I know we have all the love in the world and I should
be happy with everything. But still when we’re making a record we hope
it’s good enough, we hope Juggalos will like it. Sometimes we read a
review and somebody doesn’t like the album. It hurts. It’s part of being
human, all the stress and turmoil. It’s just the way life is.
It’s really not part of a natural human to feel unhappy and stressed
out like a lot of us feel now. It’s part of modern civilization. All
these mental problems that you see in America are not happening in rural
Cambodia or Sri Lanka or Africa. Because those people are not as system-oriented
or in the 9 to 5 grid like people here. They are undomesticated free
spirits. I don’t see it as a human problem, but as a problem caused by
the system we live in. Humans can be and should be happy every day or
most of the time. The society we live in has set up a program to domesticate
every human and control us from day one, so you can work in the system,
go to school, follow the rules. That’s not natural for us, so we feel
inner conflict.
I understand what you’re saying. I’m sure there are places in the world
that are way more stress free. You’re right about that.
What I like about ICP and the Juggalos is that you reject that program.
You have managed to stay wild despite all the training we have gone through.
I appreciate what you’re doing because you had the guts to stand against
that system that domesticates us. You didn’t do what everybody else was
doing, you didn’t follow the rules. You didn’t follow the mainstream
music route. Insane Clown Posse did it their way. You might not even
realize what you’ve done.
I do see that, but in our shoes I don’t think it was ever meant to be
that cool. Like the way you’re makin it sound, we sound like heroes.
You’re right, we don’t want to follow the mainstream. We don’t wanna
be told how to sound, how to look, how to live. In our shoes we just
did what we felt like doing. We didn’t really stand up and say we’re
gonna do things our own way. We just did it. We did what felt natural
to us.
I don’t think it was a conscious decision on your part. It’s just that
something kept you away from being domesticated, and you just went on
your free path and found magic. Most of us in this world don’t find that
magic. We’re just robots in this grid system. We never touch magic or
enter the spirit world or know the world of the dead.
Exactly. But you know what, there is very real magic in this world. And
Juggalos that get together and go to something like The Gathering of
the Juggalos, they can’t help but see that there is magic. There are
people that see it just like you and I and we’re the ones that make the
difference. We aren’t robots. We got our own fuckin brain. We’re not
stuck in the system. There’s enough of us to make a difference and be
heard and go our own way, to be free. We’re alive! We walk our own way
and we walk together. And that’s awesome! Juggalos got out there and
put ICP’s “Bang Pow Boom” record number 4 in the country. That blows
my fuckin mind man! All the mainstream Pop artists and the major record
labels, the corporate machine, they usually own that top 5. But for some
reason in that first week here was ICP up at number 4. We’re all like,
“What the fuck is this?!” Here we are up on the top 5 on our own terms.
We’re not part of the big machine. We’re not sponsored by fuckin Pepsi.
We’re not all over Clear Channel. We’re not part of your system, but
we’re up in your ass! Even if only for a week, it still meant everything
to us.
Those are the victories we celebrate at Murder Dog. That an independent
label like Psychopathic Records, and a controversial, bizarre group like
ICP can top the charts over so many corporate releases, it’s inspiring.
That’s what Murder Dog is about.
And we’re together on that. We’re fuckin together with Murder Dog. We’re
together on everything. And it feels great. That’s what makes this whole
movement so fuckin awesome.
A lot of people think you’re only about shock and violence, but there’s
more to ICP. You just have to look a little deeper. A lot of people don’t
know what is behind the Joker Cards and the Dark Carnival.
The whole Dark Carnival and the Joker Cards, that’s what scares 99% of
the people away. That’s what people don’t understand. But there’s that
magic. Like if you chip away through the mud, and you brush away all
the dirt and filth, you find diamonds underneath it all. What that diamond
is underneath all the swearing and weird stuff, it’s a general care.
We don’t want people to burn in hell. I’m not a religious person, but
I don’t want nobody to suffer. I don’t want nobody to go kill somebody
else and have to go to prison. I don’t want nobody to suffer. Me and
Shaggy, we say things in our lyrics to try to reach people on that level,
but we coat it in plenty of entertainment. We say like, “This guy’s a
pedophile so we’re gonna cut his fuckin head off!” Instead of say, “It’s
not cool to be a pedophile” we say “Let’s cut the muthafucka’s head off!”
or we say, “This guy’s a racist. Let’s beat the fuckin shit outa him!
Let’s go chicken hunting and kill the racists.” We say positive things
but we say them in an entertaining and abrasive way. We rally the people
behind us and make it cool to say, fuck being a racist! Like we don’t
like people who beat their wives. Instead of just saying, “Hey don’t
beat your wife,” we make a song about people who go out and kill people
who beat their wives. It makes it more entertaining. It makes the anger
more real, puts energy behind these feelings. Somebody might think about
how their father beat their mother. And in most cases, when you come
from a house where your father beat his wife, there’s a chance that you
might end up beating your wife too. If you listen to our music you might
say fuck that! I don’t have to do that, I’m not gonna be part of that.
Or if you were molested as a child, it happens to a lot of people, you
might listen to our songs and say, “I’m not gonna be no fuckin molester.
I’ll kill a molester.” We don’t really kill them, but we put all that
anger out and it feels better. There are a lot of good messages buried
in our music. Some idiot might listen to our records and miss all those
messages. They’ll hear a bunch of swearing and crazy shit and they’re
not gonna get it. It’s gonna fly right over their head. But someone like
a Juggalo who had a vivid imagination and looks deeper, they’re gonna
hear it. It’s almost like a code, like scriptures where most people don’t
hear it. Only the special few can hear what we’re saying.
There is a certain tendency in all of us that we gravitate towards love.
Behind all your wicked and violent lyrics there is love. That’s why all
those people gravitate to ICP. There is love. The Juggalos have found
a home in ICP. Something they never had with their families, they never
had at school or in society, they have found in you.
You’re exactly right. That’s the diamond, it’s love. It’s there for people
that can hear what we’re sayin. We wouldn’t be sayin it if we weren’t
just like them. It’s a genuine love underneath it all. Buried underneath
all the dirt, that’s the treasure. That’s what makes it magic.
That’s why people feel happy and comfortable to be part of the Juggalo
movement. It’s food for them. Love is food, and it’s not there in this
modern society any more.
Exactly. Sometimes our music might sound like we’re in some kind of religion,
but we’re really not into any religion. Other than the basic belief of
an afterlife. We do believe in afterlife. And we want to see Juggalos
live in a positive way so they have a chance to go somewhere better after
they die. We don’t have it all figured out. We don’t go to church or
pretend that we have all the answers. But I have a genuine feeling in
my soul that says if you live your life evil, when you die you will suffer.
When you live your life positive, it will be a good afterlife for you.
In a lot of tribal societies people worship the dead. We have good dead
spirits and bad dead spirits. People who did good to the tribe are worshipped
and loved. And the ones that did bad, their name is always bad throughout
the tribe.
That’s basically our belief too. We understand people are raised with
different religions, but we hold the basic understanding that people
need to do good with their life. Let the music do the killing. Let the
music vent that anger.
A lot of people don’t have an outlet to vent their anger. The anger build
up inside them until eventually they do something really violent. Music
lets us release that anger. You say Juggalos have grown into something
bigger than ICP. What are some of the other developments you’ve seen
in the movement?
I see them loving other groups that we have nothing to do with. They
might like a group and give them total Juggalo love. Also there are times
that we at Psychopathic Records try to introduce something new to the
Juggalos, but they don’t accept it. Like for instance wrestling. We might
say, “Hey Juggalos, here comes Juggalo wrestling.” We’ll present the
idea and maybe 10% of the Juggalos will like it. There’s no set pattern.
There’s no way to pinpoint exactly what Juggalos are gonna want. Sometimes
they don’t want things that you’d think they would. Sometimes me and
Shaggy will bring some of our favorite groups that we grew up loving.
We’ll bring them to the Gathering, and Juggalos will boo ‘em off stage.
You can’t predict what they’re gonna want. Then there’s other things
that me and Shaggy might not think is all that cool, but the Juggalos
love. They’re their own thing. They’re not following us, they’re their
own movement. It’s not like Kiss and the Kiss Army. Then you’ve got the
Grateful Dead and they call their fans Deadheads. Well Juggalos aren’t
just ICP fans. Juggalos are something bigger than that. I’m thankful
that they continue to love and support ICP. There are bands that we’ve
put out thinking the Juggalos will love it, but they don’t get into that
music. Then they’ll be liking something else that has nothing to do with
us. They’re not here to be ICP fans. They’re here to be Juggalos. They’re
not the ICP Army.
That’s a positive thing. They’re not following you blindly. They
still have a free spirit.
Right. They might reject something we bring. They don’t accept everything
we put out. Maybe a small fraction of them do, but most of them make
their own choices. It’s not just about ICP. It’s its own living breathing
entity. It’s its own monster. And it’s great! That’s the way it should
be.
If you have kids, you want them to grow and flower and have their own
fruits.
Exactly, but I would never ever not want to be part of the Juggalo world.
I would rather 10,000 Juggalos buy our record than 10 million regular
fans. Give me the 10,000 Juggalos over 10 million mainstream fans and
I’ll be way more happy. Let me give you a perfect example of what we’re
talking about. Remember when we were at war with Eminem? He was dissing
us on his records and we were dissing him. Eminem might sell out an arena.
There might be 30,000 people there to see Eminem, 30,000 Eminem fans.
While ICP might sell out a theater and have 3,000 ICP fans. Well, let
me tell you this. You could go to the arena with Eminem fans and wear
an ICP hat or ICP shirt, you could totally drape yourself in ICP gear
and walk around that arena and probably not even get into a fight. But
if you wore an Eminem shirt in front of 3,000 Juggalos they’ll probably
kill you. The 3000 Juggalos are louder, they’re prouder, and they’re
stronger than 30,000 Eminem fans. I’m not trying to start no old war
with Eminem, I’m just giving an example of how loyal Juggalo fans are.
Their love is stronger, their devotion is stronger, everything about
it is stronger.
The love of one Juggalo is equal to a thousand regular people.
Each Juggalo is worth a thousand people. That’s how I look at it and
that’s how we’ve always looked at it. To have Juggalo support is the
greatest thing in the world. That’s the reason Insane Clown Posse has
been here for almost 20 years now, with no radio play, no video play
and no hits. Think about it: we don’t even have any hit songs! Not one
song everybody knows us for. Every group has hits. We don’t have no fuckin
hits. You fly under the radar and you stay bubbling underneath, you live
forever.
In tribal cultures talking to the dead is a positive and natural part
of life. That what’s missing in this modern civilization, and people
are looking for some contact with the unknown, the spirit world. Some
people get into horror, mainly through films and books. A lot of times
supernatural things are presented as evil or negative, but it’s really
not negative. Those are positive things. We always do rituals to connect
with our dead spirits. We do what you call devil dancing, or in Haiti
they have Voodoo. We celebrate out dead, and it’s not scary or evil.
Exactly. It definitely is supernatural. It’s right here happening in
front of us every day. It’s real utter magic happening and it’s awesome.
It’s a timeless thing. It will still be happening 20 years from now.
Even after ICP there will be Juggalos.
The damage humans have done and are still doing to the environment is
devastating. Everybody knows we can’t go on living this way. We are destroying
ourselves by destroying the forests and the oceans and the air, and killing
off so many animal species. Do you think there are people in the Juggalo
movement who are thinking about these things?
I definitely think so. I think Juggalos are the type of people who make
a difference. I think there’s enough Juggalos that are into things like
that and want to change this. Absolutely. I think Juggalos are the good
guys. I think Juggalos can save this planet.
