WITCH HOUSE MUSIC: INTERVIEWS WITH SALEM, DISARO, WHITE RING AND oOoOO
Interviews by Black Dog Bone
Salem
People are calling the kind of music Salem is doing Witch House. Do you feel that is what you’re doing?
I don’t think any of us really think about that. That’s how other people are responding to what we put out. It’s not like we came with the name. If someone wants to come up with a name to call our music, that’s fine. Like I would never use that name to describe myself. At the same time, I don’t care how someone else wants to describe me. That’s on them.
Do you feel like other bands who are considered to be doing Witch House, like oOoOO, Disaro, White Ring or Balam Acab, are doing something similar to Salem?
The only person I’ve really listened to of all the names you named is oOoOO. I feel what he’s doing for sure. I don’t think it sounds like ours, but we’re both doing something different. I definitely have respect for what he’s doing. I can understand. We started making this in a really small apartment in Chicago and in the woods in Michigan. Now other people are getting into it and they’re throwing words on it and attaching it to other people. That’s fine, I don’t have any problem with that, but we’re not part of a scene. None of us are. It’s really not part of our lives.
It seems like Salem uses more Rap and your sound is harder than a lot of these other bands.
That’s true for some songs, then other songs could be lighter and no beat at all. I feel like we have a very full spectrum to our sound. We have so many songs we haven’t released yet.
Sometimes certain things start happening in different parts of the world at the same time, completely unrelated to each other. It’s just the time for that. And I feel like the Witch House movement is like that.
Yeah. I feel like that for sure. And our music, the reason people are feeling it is because it’s of the time right now. We’re all just picking up on the music that we wanna be hearing right now. That’s what we put out, and other people are doing something along the same lines. People are picking up on it, and it’s a young sound. A lot of people who feel us are really young and they can’t get enough of it. To me that’s cool.
A lot of the music I’m hearing has a dark, gloomy sound. Very bleak. It almost reminds me of bands like Joy Division or some Dubstep artists like Burial. Are you familiar with that music?
That’s not what I grew up listening to, but John and Heather were influenced by those types of bands. Like Joy Division and My Bloody Valentine and stuff. Once we became friends he would play that music for me. But I grew up listening to almost exclusively Rap. There’s everything in there though. John’s parents were both classically trained musicians. He grew up in the woods in Michigan and there’s a really small school and they taught there. So he has a Classical background too. We’re bringing all these different sounds together, but it’s not like any of those types of music really. When we’re making music it’s like, “I wanna hear this noise and this noise and this noise,” and it’s all woven together.
It’s also interesting that Salem was influenced by DJ Screw.
That’s something that I think everybody likes to experiment with, like with records or something, just slowing them down. When I first heard something Screwed and Chopped I was in 7th grade or something—that was when Limewire and Napster were out and I just devoured all the Screwed and Chopped music I could find. I feel like we listened to so many different types of music that there’s no real barrier of like trying to make a certain type of song. The vocabulary that we use to make our music includes all the music we’ve ever heard. It’s not like we’d do one song that would be like a Chicago Juke song, like the drum track. It just all comes together and makes something new. The music that we listen to is so vast and the influences could come from anywhere from DJ Screw to a Classical composer; it could come from a youtube video from some remote place on the planet. It could come from anything. How we weave it all together is what becomes our product.
People have access to so much right now. You hear all kinds of music from all parts of the world. That’s going to come into what you create. Are you mainly using samples or playing the music?
We play all of our stuff. We rarely use samples. John and Heather have tons of keyboards, and they’ll play it on keyboards or electric guitars or any instrument. The thing about anywhere in the world, I think the thing that connects all of us is there’s a certain feel that will go through all of our music, and that feeling is universal. It’s like we listen to music for a feeling rather than for a genre of music. You could hear a song of an Indian woman singing and it could make you feel reflective and sad. And you could hear a Screwed and Chopped song and it could give you that same feeling.
That’s what I noticed about all of the so-called Witch House bands. You have a certain feeling. Even though you all sound different from each other, the atmosphere you create is similar, even with the artwork you use.
Maybe all these bands are looking in a similar direction. At the same time, I don’t think anybody else really sounds like us either. Sometimes people will credit us as having influenced some of these people. They’ll ask us, “Do you feel like someone’s copying you?” We’ll be like, “No. It doesn’t sound like us so how can we feel like they’re copying us?”
I would never say that they’re copying you. I think the media likes to put a lot of music together and give it a name like Witch House. I went to a “Witch House” show recently that Robert Disaro was deejaying and all of the bands were different. One was a band from the South and sounded like Glorious Din or Joy Division; there was a folk singer named King Dude, and two other bands—Water Border and White Ring—were more Electronic. Throughout the show, the feeling was dark and gloomy. It had a real mystical atmosphere.
Right. Instead of trying to get the crowd hyped up and excited it puts you in a more quiet state. Our music in that way is similar. When we first started playing shows I think people were kind of surprised. They didn’t really know what to do with it. They expected it to jump off and get buck or something. People were like, this is not what I came here to see. The more we kept doing it, people started understanding more what we were doing. When they came to the show they were in that head space already. Before people were just thrown off.
When you go to a shaman healing ritual in Sri Lanka it takes place in the forest at night. That’s probably the feeling you get at your shows.
Totally. Even just going into the woods sets you up to feel like, “I’m not going to a music festival and I’ll be drunk.” It puts you more in a respectful place and lets people do their thing. It affects you like that. But when you’re in a big city like New York or LA people expect to be entertained and not affected. That’s something we’re still trying to figure out. We’re not just trying to make the audience feel good. Our message is more truthful than that. We’re not just entertaining. We’re responding to life. If someone can hang with us for a minute and get into that drone, then it will be a successful show.
When I was watching White Ring perform it was a somber atmosphere. It was almost like going to a Glorious Din, Trial or Spahn Ranch show. It was like a primitive tribal ritual. Everything is dark, you hear the deep drums, just a strobe going off and on.
What you’re saying about a shaman ritual in Sri Lanka in the woods, that would be a perfect place for us to play. That sounds so sacred and pure. At this point it’s difficult for us to find situations like that.
Maybe one day we can do it. Just like the shamans we could be possessed by demons. Those rituals are very mysterious and eerie.
I would love that. Murder Dog and Salem resurrection.
It’s interesting for me to talk to you, because I’ve always loved the dark, gloomy music like Joy Division and I also love the Chicago Rap style. I was in Chicago for like two weeks—I interviewed Crucial Conflict, Psycho Drama, Snypaz, all of them.
That’s crazy. That’s totally who I grew up loving. Those are like the untouchable people to me. When someone asks me who I’d like to work with most those are the artists I say. Maybe we can do something with them. I’m working on it. If I could ever work with Psycho Drama or Crucial Conflict that would be insane!
You were probably really young when they were happening.
I probably came in later, like after their hay day when people’s older brothers and sisters would put me up on shit. Even older Twista stuff, like “Kamikaze”.
Which of the Salem members are more into Rap and DJ Screw?
Me. We all are, but I’m definitely the most into that. I grew up on that.
Who is more into the rituals and demons and sorcery?
I’d say maybe John is the most. When John was younger he was really into it. Now that we’re older it’s more of a respect for it, and not as much trying to practice it.
A lot of the Post Punk darker, heavier music came from industrial towns. They didn’t have a feeling of nature in the music. Now Witch House music incorporates images from the forest—animals and trees, also fire. It’s cool to see how you’re combining Electronic music with nature.
I definitely think that. I think there’s a whole change in the attitude. What people were doing before was more sarcastic or cynical. We’re a huge turn away from that. We’re not sarcastic at all or trying to be cool. We’re really just putting ourselves out there. If people feel it they feel it, if they don’t that’s OK. Nature is something that strongly affects all of us. That’s what is spiritual, what really moves me and all of us. We’re moved, and we’re responding to that.
Do you ever think of setting up shows in the forest or in the woods, not in clubs in the cities?
We want to. What we really want to do is get two semi trucks and fill them with people and drive out to a location, like with a clearing in the woods. The show would be in the light of the headlights of the trucks. We need to get that money before we can start setting up shows like that. We have so many ideas. We’re all pretty young too.
When you perform do you have a certain image, like a certain look that represents Salem?
Now when we do shows we just wear the clothes that we usually wear. I think the way that we dress is our own style, but I wouldn’t even know how to describe that. We don’t get dressed up in costumes or anything. I’ll wear whatever. I’d say that we all dress Midwestern, whatever that means.
You were saying that your music is not sarcastic. To me it’s very emotional. It really stirs you. It’s hard to play strange slow emotional music to a lot of people. Their minds are sometimes so far away.
I know what you mean. People get all dressed up, they wanna look nice, and they come to your show. Then when you play something that’s reflective or sad or dark, it can turn people off. That’s not what they were expecting. I just want people to understand. People will get almost mad about it. It’s nothing to get mad about. If you don’t like it don’t come back. We’re just doing what we do and if you feel it I appreciate it. I think right now we’re at a place where we’re starting to get recognized, which is really encouraging. Now we’re going to be able to work with other rappers and produce some Rap. We’ll be able to broaden into other directions and still do our own thing.
Probably now that people know what you’re about, when they come to a Salem show they’re more tuned to your atmosphere.
Right. The more shows we play, people are totally prepared, totally ready to give themselves over to that sound. But in the beginning, and also when we play for more of an industry crowd they’d be like, “This isn’t Arcade Fire!” We’re like, “That’s true. We’re not them. We’re not upset about it so you shouldn’t be either.”
Do you listen to Dubstep music?
Not really. People have sent me some Dubstep stuff, but it’s not something that any of us are into. Not that I have anything against it, but we’re not influenced by it at all.
What do you feel about being categorized into a musical genre? Does that bother you?
I feel like if anybody is talking about us that’s fine. Spread the message. I don’t think those labels are the best way to describe what we’re doing. At the same time, I’m not trying to choose anybody’s vocabulary in general. Just because it involves me, I’m still not trying to choose it. You can describe whatever you want however you want. I’m more concerned that someone gets exposed to our music than what they call it.
The images these new bands use are very similar too. A lot of the images are blurred and out of focus, smoky and mysterious. It’s not what we see in Rap music or in Rock music. Where do you think this tendency is coming from?
I feel like it’s almost a response to people being cynical and insincere. People resonate with us because that’s not our sense of humor or sensibility. That doesn’t make me feel anything. But nature does make me feel something, so I’d rather focus on that. I feel like there’s a shift in people now that they’re more interested in focusing on something that means something and is permanent like nature, than just talkin shit.
How did you and John and Heather meet? Was it music that brought you together?
John and Heather met in Michigan in this really small boarding school in the woods. They have like music education from grammar school to high school. Then John was in Chicago after high school, and I grew up in Chicago. I just met him around the city. We instantly became really tight. Heather came and was living with John in his little apartment in Chicago near Humboldt Park. We all started making music. It wasn’t ever a conscious decision; it just sort of happened. We would hang out, and I would sometimes draw. I had already been making beats and John and Heather were doing music on their own. We just made a bunch of songs and kept doing it.
Probably the sorcery and occult ideas were part of your conversations when you were hanging out?
In that time there was definitely a lot more of a focus. I feel sort of weird talking about that in an interview.
Do you still go and spend time where they live in Michigan?
Yeah, I go up there a lot. Whenever we need to practice or we want to work on some music. They’ll either come here or I’ll go to Traverse City.
You said you were doing drawings. Are you also an artist?
Yeah. All of us take pictures, and all of us draw. We make our own videos. We don’t outsource much.
(more of this interview at www.murderdog.com/digital)
DJ Disaro (Disaro Records)
When I heard that you were influenced by DJ Screw and you run the label that puts out all of this Witch House music, I was interested to know more. The Witch House movement is a strange crossing of musical genres—Rap and dark Electronic music.
Yeah. We add a lot of dark Electro and synth to it. We’re trying to create a whole new sound.
Where did the title Witch House come from? Who named this musical style?
I think back when we did SXSW back in June, they were asking us what we wanted to call this music we’re doing. I said, “I’d like to just call it Witch House.” I just threw that out there and the next day it was blogged and just spread like wildfire.
Did you call it that because it’s like House music combined with elements of witchcraft and paganism?
Kinda like that. We add a lot of the dark elements of Electro music, and like dark Coldwave. We just combined the two with the Screw sound. Once we slowed it all down it worked so well together, so we stuck with it for a while. Actually we stuck with it for maybe 3 years.
Most of the artists creating this music are White, so I was surprised to find you, a Black deejay and musician from Houston, running the Disaro label who deals with a lot of the Witch House bands.
When I was growing up I listened to a lotta Hip Hop. That’s all I deejayed was Hip Hop. But I was also into a lot of the Wax Trax Electronic music, Industrial music. I was trying to find a way to combine the two by adding a little bit of Hop and a little bit of the Electronic too. Now it’s all falling into place and bands are starting to specifically make music that way.
When did you start seeing this style of music emerge? It looks to me like Disaro Records was the first label to specialize in Witch House.
We were actually the first label to start it. We started back in 2007 when I released two Salem CD-R’s, which were full length records; each one had 24 songs on it. That set the way for where I wanted to go with the label. In the beginning when it first started off I really didn’t have any kind of direction. I just wanted to put a lotta good obscure music. But now I know what I want and I know the direction that I’m heading in. We’re even signing a Hip Hop act to the label that’s doing some really good Hip Hop music, but they’re also into the whole Witch House movement.
When you say you were into Industrial music, were you into Factory Records and Post Punk bands like Joy Division?
Definitely! Joy Division, Front 242, KMFDM, all of that. I was a huge fan of all that. Back in high school those were the concerts that I was going to. Then I’d also be going to the Run DMC show and the LL Cool J show. All my life I’ve really been into music. I really didn’t know where it was gonna go. I tried starting my own band. Then I was like, “Instead of doing my own band, why don’t I make a label? That way I can release what I want at any time.”
Are you putting your own music out on Disaro Records?
We released a CD back in 2007 called Gash, which is also part of the whole Witch House movement, but it was more Industrial sounding. It’s more like Joy Division slowed down.
One of my favorite Post Punk bands is Joy Division. Then when I heard Burial, who is a Dubstep artist, I felt like he had the same vibe as Joy Division. Some of the music you’re putting out has a similar sound.
I think so. We also add a lot of ritualistic sounds. We keep the feeling dark and occult. We’re trying to not be just another normal record label. We want to have a certain feel. We’re more than just bands and a label, we’re pretty much a family, like a tribe.
All of the elements you see in Witch House music are also in primitive tribal cultures. The paganism, the shamanism, the sorcery, the rituals.
Exactly. And we pull from all of that. From all the old Aleister Crowley books or the stories about Charlie Manson. We try to incorporate that into the label with imagery and our logos, and with the sound. The music is very dark. It carries a heavy heavy bass line which separates us from the rest of the labels.
I like how the images associated with this music has a consistent look. The artwork looks mysterious and murky. Really gloomy and bleak, very unusual. I’m not looking at it in a negative way.
A lot of the artists on the label are actual artists who do photography and painting and different types of art. We deal with a lot of artists who are good at visual art as well as music, so they combine their art with the music.
Visual presentation is such a big part of music. I feel like Witch House artists are very aware of that.
Definitely, and we’re trying to push it as far as we can. With the New Year coming, we’re gonna take it to a whole new realm of alchemy and magic. We want people to be aware that it’s a lot more than what you hear and see. We want them to understand what we’re doing.
How did you get into all of these interesting things like shamanism and sorcery and witchcraft?
I got into all of it growing up. I was really into sixties cult classic films. I was a really big fan of the old Russ Meyer films. I was really big into Kenneth Anger movies. As I grew up all of that filtered into what I wanted the label to be, what I wanted it to look like and sound like. The co-owners of Disaro Records are James Weigel and Eric Nordhauser. With those two involved with the label helps a lot. James is an artist, he does strictly occult art, which projects the image of the sound we do. I’ve known James for about 25 years. We grew up together, and we just joined forces. When I started the label I asked him if he’d like to do some CD artwork for us. He said, “I’d love to.” He just stuck with it, doing the CD art for the label. Then I wanted to pull him more into it so he’d be more involved with the label. Now he’s a co-owner of Disaro Records, as well as Eric.
In Detroit you have the Horrorcore music with rappers like Esham, Insane Clown Posse, Natas, but what you’re doing is very different from that. Witch House has more of a tribal, nature-based, primitive feel to it. It’s not Horrorcore at all.
Definitely. We believe in magic and we believe in shamanism. It’s not Horrorcore. Without the good magic there can’t be any bad magic. We incorporate all of it and mold it all together to make what we want from it. With the shows that we do we want them to be memorable. We don’t want it to be like a normal show. Like you saw White Ring perform the other night, how they fogged the place out. That’s part of the whole Witch House thing. Like, don’t pay attention to what we look like, but look at what we can do and listen to what we do. It’s all about atmosphere.
I’m from Sri Lanka and I come from a shamanic background. When I saw White Ring perform I felt like I was back in Sri Lanka in the forest in the middle of a shamanistic healing ritual. It had a mysterious eerie feeling.
That’s exactly how we wanted it to be. We want our shows to be more than just a concert. We want you to walk out of regular reality. We take it as far as we can go with the imagery, the sound, the whole feeling. Most of the time certain artists from the label will put the imagery together. Sort of like the band Mater Suspiria Vision, which is on Disaro. He’s from Germany. He takes all of these occult films and slices them up and makes these great movies to put with his show. While he’s playing his music his video tells the story of each track that he plays.
What’s your input to the label? Do you produce music?
I’m really focused on running the label right now. I’m working on releasing my own solo project in the coming year, but I’m keeping that a little secretive right now. I’m not ready to share it with anyone. Now I’m running the label and deejaying the shows, getting the music out there so people can hear the music that we’re doing.
In your DJ set you mix Gucci Mane and Waka Flocka Flame with Post Punk and Electronic music. It works surprisingly well.
I definitely like to keep a Hip Hop element present in my mix, as well as the Electronic music. I’m paying respects to my influences. I have to pay respect to this amazing Hip Hop music that’s out there right now. It doesn’t get played in a lot of the young hipster White clubs. I feel it belongs in there along with the Witch House and Electronic music. We’re trying to expose people to this amazing music that you won’t find in the mainstream media. Listen to what we can do.
That was an exciting show you did at the Knockout in San Francisco. The energy was great.
I’m glad you had a good time. We had an amazing time!
Are you originally from Houston?
I’m originally from Houston. Now I’m living in LA.
Murder Dog is mainly a hardcore Rap magazine…
I know and I love it! I was flattered that you wanted to do something with me.
When I saw what you’re doing with Disaro Records I was excited. I don’t see anybody else out there mixing all of this original music like DJ Screw and Hip Hop with elements of shamanism, witchcraft, nature, like the whole Witch House movement.
I’m glad you like it. We actually have another show coming up in San Francisco at 120 Milkbar. I’ll be out there on November 27 doing a DJ set. oOoOO from the label will also be there doing a DJ set. Definitely try to make it out for that.
When I saw the show you did it was in a regular club, but the atmosphere you created made me feel like I was in the mountains or in the forest. Would you ever do a show actually in a forest?
That would be great to do some outdoor shows. We just haven’t found the right spot to do anything like that yet. Anything is possible.
How would you describe the music on Disaro Records?
With me growing up listening to a lot of the darker Electro music, that’s basically where it came from. I was in that realm of mysticism and magic and witchcraft. All of that I was interested in growing up. I wanted to incorporate that into the music. And I love DJ Screw so much. I wanted to get these bands to slow the rpm’s down on it, and everyone’s been doing an amazing job with it. The music keeps getting better and better. They’re growing into their own sound, and I love that.
I love DJ Screw too. We were one of the few people to interview him while he was alive. It’s good that you’re keeping his name alive. I still have the Screwed up cassettes he gave me.
We’re trying to. We’re trying to make this younger generation aware of him. A lot more people are starting to pay attention to DJ Screw and listening to his music. Now they’re understanding where Disaro is coming from. Disaro, coming out of Houston where DJ Screw was from, it all makes sense.
You were into all that that Electronic music. So how did you get into DJ Screw’s music.
I got into DJ Screw when I was about 10. I used to go and stay with my cousin who lived in Third Ward in Houston. I’d see these car shows going through and they were playing nothing but Screw the whole time. Then my older cousin took me to the Screw Shop and I started buying Screw tapes. That’s how that whole chain started.
A lot of the young Indie crowd who are into DJ Dilla are also picking up on the Witch House music. Have you noticed that?
I have noticed it. To be honest, I had no idea this many people knew about Witch House. I’m still trying to get a grip on it. Like I said, I’m trying to change Electronic music and put something out there that nobody else is doing.
Electronic music has always had a ritualistic, shamanistic aspect to it.
Definitely. But they weren’t dropping the heavy bassed out beats, and slowing it down, maybe throwing in a rapper the way a group like Salem would do.
Witch House music has dance beats, but it’s really slowed down.
Exactly. You can still groove to it and throw an amazing dance party with this music. That’s kinda where that Hip Hop element plays into it. We drop synth and a few keyboards over that, and we turn it into a whole new thing.
What have you released on Disaro Records so far and what is coming up next?
I’ve had over 35 releases on CD-R. Right now we’re going into records. The record that we’re about to put out this month is White Ring. They’re amazing! We’re also working on a full length record by them within the coming year.
What other music have you heard that impressed you, outside of your camp?
I’m really into Health. And I really enjoy the band Entertainment. There’s a lot of stuff that I’m really into, but I try to not listen to too much. I don’t want to cross contaminate myself. When I listen to a lot of different stuff it tends to filter through me in some way, so I’ve been mainly sticking to the bands that I’m working with. Right now we’re getting ready to release Party Trash, which is heavy bassed out, very slowed down, very very dark mystical sounding stuff.
What do you look for when you check out new bands? Do you just focus on the sound or are you into the lyrical content too?
No. I’m way past the whole lyrical content thing. What we do is basically DIY. You can say and do whatever you want, as long as you don’t hurt anyone. The whole aspect of “Parental Advisory”, we say fuck it.
When you listen to a group like Joy Division, what was it you liked about them?
I was really into Ian Curtis’ lyrics without a doubt. But it was the music also, the Post Punk sound that they had. They were so ahead of their time. It just ended too quick.
Were you into groups like PIL and Gang of Four too?
I was, but what I was really into was like Current 93 and Coil, Throbbing Gristle, Psychic TV—those were my basics. I pull a lot from what I was listening to back then and try to put that into what I’m doing now. Coil and Throbbing Gristle, those are my gods. I’m channeling their energy through me to put out this whole new way of dark music. I don’t want it to be in the mainstream, but I do want it well-known.
One thing that’s missing in Hip Hop music is that melancholy, dark, emotional side. What do you think?
I think where we’re at right now with Hip Hop music, they’re rapping a lot about what they have and what they can get. It’s really not about the internal or emotional. It’s about what’s going on around you outside of you, and for the most part it’s not even true. With the underground street stuff that’s what they’re pushing right now. I wish it could go back to where you can drop some realness into it and make it how it should be. At the same time, I love my Waka Flocka Flame and Gucci Mane.
Rap music has become so commercialized, something of the original spirit has disappeared.
It has disappeared. With the kids growing up now it’s basically about gang banging and calling sets, and it doesn’t have to be that way. It wasn’t that way in the beginning with Slick Rick and Run DMC. It was about making great music that people can dance to and have a good time. Not about what kind of gun you’re carrying or what kind of car you’re driving. It was about making amazing music. I think that’s what Hip Hop music needs to go back to.
Were you into artists like Three 6 Mafia?
Definitely! I was really into Three 6 Mafia, 8ball & MJG. I love that music. Some of that Three 6 Mafia stuff was really dark too. It was very dark music, but I don’t think people were looking at it that way.
Even DJ Screw had a dark element.
DJ Screw was very dark. Also it’s drug music. You can probably say that about some of the Disaro stuff also. It’s slowed down, very moody. It puts you in the mind frame to think about your situations. That’s how I want it. I want it to put you in that frame of mind. Also, by me being gay and doing this, I put that out on the forefront as well. I let the younger gay kids know that anybody can do this. All you need is a good imagination, and don’t let anybody stop you.
It surprised me when to find you, a Black man, in the center of this weird experimental music.
I’ve always been one to really not give a fuck what people thought about me. I’ve always been one to just do my own thing.
That’s a brave position to take. We need more of that attitude in Rap. People are scared to do the unexpected. They’re afraid to be different.
They’re scared to be themselves, that’s what it is. In the Hip Hop world there are tons and tons of gay artists, but they’re not out. They have to be what the media wants them to be. That’s something I will never settle for.
When you do shows do you get booked with other Witch House artists?
I do a lot of the booking for the shows, or the bands do their own booking. It’s way bigger here in LA than in Houston. When I was in Houston the kids really didn’t know what to think about it until it was time for me to leave.
When you came to LA what did you see that was different?
It was just a good place for me to make the label bigger. And this is where the other two owners are. Now we can operate the label way better. Also there are a lot more venues for us to play here in LA, San Diego and San Francisco. The music is so well received here.
What about the Northwest? Have you gone up to Portland?
We’re planning to tour up in Portland and Canada in the coming year. We’re gonna set up a Disaro showcase for Coachella in April.
White Ring
How do you feel about the name that’s being used to describe this music you’re doing, Witch House?
It’s a broad term that’s being used pretty loosely. I definitely think there’s a new thing going on with music right now. It does get labeled as Witch House. To me that’s fine, as long as it doesn’t start to become super classified.
Sometimes people don’t like labels, but it does help to define the different styles that are happening. There are so many ways of doing music.
Definitely. I wouldn’t want for us to be classified as strictly a Witch House band, but I do see the advantages of labels. It’s a term that helps people find stuff, and they can decide weather or not they like it.
Of the different Witch House bands I’ve listened to, all of the bands come from different parts of the country. Still, you all of you have a similar feeling and similar imagery to represent the music.
Totally. It’s internet based mostly. There isn’t any particular scene for it. Even here in New York there’s only like 2 or 3 bands that are doing something considered to be like what we’re doing. It’s really scattered throughout the country and throughout the world. It works out though. It kind of doubles the playing field for anyone who wants to do it. There’s like a 15 year old kid in Wisconsin who’s making music that a lot of people know. That would never happen before.
In the days of Punk Rock or early Hip Hop you would have regional movements in music. A certain sound would develop in LA or in Philadelphia or in Houston. Now people all over the world are getting connected through the internet. It’s very different now.
Yeah. Even the way it starts. Like Kendra was living in New York before I was. I lived in New Orleans, and we started talking on the internet. We didn’t know each other. We just started sending tracks back and forth through email. We had 6 songs done before we ever met each other. Then we decided we should start practicing and figuring out how to do it live. It’s crazy how much the internet has to do with what we’re doing.
Kendra was in New York and you were in New Orleans?
She was living in New York; she’s from Seattle though. By the time we started communicating she was already in New York.
Before you formed White Ring you were doing music on your own and she was too?
Right. Through myspace we found each other. I liked what she was doing, so I reached out and asked her about doing something together. Then I started sending her instrumental songs, and she started singing over them. That’s how we started doing it. That was late 2006 or early 2007.
When I saw you perform at the Knockout you were playing keyboards. Do you also sing?
I do some singing. There was one song that I sang on that night. Kendra does most the singing.
Once you started were you able to do a lot of music through email?
We didn’t know each other. It was kind of like on our free time, just on random occasions when we had the time to we would work on some stuff. It was a pretty slow start. In the 2 years before I came to New York we had only done like 5 songs. Because we were doing everything through email and we were working on ourselves. As soon as I moved up here we got more serious about it.
How did the name come about, White Ring?
It was no real significant meaning. We both like the way it looks and the way it sounds. It kind of gives a visual that we wanted in your head when you listen to our music. It didn’t come from anything specifically.
A lot of the bands now are working through email and living far apart from each other.
Yeah. And a lot of the bands are really just one person doing everything. But it’s true, now it’s not important that you live in the same area. When you write songs purely for the music and not as much thinking about doing shows, then you have the liberty to explore different sounds.
It looks like a lot of the Witch House bands are influenced by Rap music and DJ Screw and producers like J. Dilla. Were you into the Rap side too?
I’m really into the Rap side. How we started the band was we had these strange mixes of songs. The idea was to take songs that you grew up listening to that you really liked. We both liked a lotta the same stuff. Early Cash Money stuff was really important to us. Even now, as far as new music goes I pretty much only listen to Rap. It’s a really big part of the music writing process for me.
That’s really surprising. When I saw you perform what I heard was like a Post Punk/Doom & Gloom Electronic sound.
Yeah. I think it’s important to pick what you like out of what you’re listening to if you’re going to write music. I really like listening to Rap. I don’t pay as much attention to the lyrics as I do with what’s going on with the drums. There’s really interesting stuff going on with the drumbeats in new Rap music. Producers like Lex Luther are doing crazy stuff! I’m influenced by certain aspects. Most of the drum stuff is like Rap. And then we’re really into Trance and Hardstyle. We both liked Post Punk when we were younger. Translating all of that cohesively is what we’re trying to do.
Is Kendra into the same music as you are?
Kendra’s into a lotta the same stuff as I am. She also likes a lot of Metal, Neofolk music. Like Death in June. King Dude who played with us at the Knockout that night, he’s Neofolk. Like dark acoustic guitar.
Is King Dude from New York too?
No, he’s from Seattle. That’s where Kendra’s from. They knew each other from like high school.
That’s an unusual combination of musical influences—Rap and Post Punk, then the Folk and Electronic.
Definitely. It’s about taking from different aspects of music. You’re really making something of your own with it.
Even though I couldn’t understand the lyrics, I could feel your atmosphere. What are you talking about lyrically?
To be completely honest, I don’t know most of the lyrics for our songs. Most people don’t and that’s kind of the point. It’s less about what’s being said—there’s no real message in the lyrics—it’s more of a feeling that you get from the sounds.
That’s what I like about your music. I listen to a lot of tribal music from all over the world, even though you don’t know what they’re sayin. It really doesn’t matter. The feeling comes across. That’s the way your music effected me.
That’s a great compliment. It’s the same principle. It’s about the mood and the emotion being established. It’s the textures. It’s music that you can zone out to and not really pay attention to, or you could really get lost in it also.
When I was at your performance I felt like I was at a shamanic healing ritual out in the forest—the fog and the dim lights and the strobe—it really took me on a trip to another realm.
Totally. If you see the gear that we bring with us when we play live, especially when we’re at home and we can bring everything—it’s over double lighting equipment than it is musical equipment. It’s really just one keyboard that’s played and the singing. It’s a pretty basic setup. When we were first practicing we saw tha it could be a boring performance for people who weren’t really into it. So anything visual on the internet and all of our albums covers, we do all the art for it. The visual esthetic is just as important as the sound. They have to come together really well. We spent a lot of time figuring out our lighting setup.
That’s what I see in all of the Witch House bands. They create a certain atmosphere in all of their artwork and visuals. They take you to another world.
How we really wanted to do it when we started was not even have our identities revealed. It started getting to a point where we wanted to play shows and we were doing little interviews here and there, so we had to do it. But we’re not into doing press photos. Even for our live shows we try to keep it foggy and we’re more or less silhouettes on the stage. We like the mystery behind it. I varies depending on how the place is laid out, like how much fog. When we played in New York people didn’t even know that we were the people who had performed, after when we were in the club.
How was the show in LA?
The show in LA was crazy! It was on Halloween, so that alone got a lot of people to go out. There were a lotta people from the San Francisco show that came down, and a lotta people from the San Diego show came up. It was crazy. As far as our West Coast dates, it was the most wild show that we did.
I feel like your music could get very popular in San Francisco. San Francisco is dark, wet, and foggy. The city has a mysterious atmosphere.
Totally. I had never been to San Francisco before. We spent a few days there. It was always windy and overcast. It was crazy.
Have you gone up to Seattle or Portland to perform?
Not yet. Kendra is from Seattle, so we really wanna go play there. We definitely will go up there.
How did you meet Robert Disaro and sign with Disaro Records?
That was on the internet also. That show in San Francisco, that night, we had only met like three days beforehand. But we had known each other on the internet for over a year. We just started emailing one another. At first the release that we’re doing with Disaro, we had coming out on another record label. It was taking that record label too long to put it out. They had it for over a year. We had already become friends with Robert. We weren’t going to do a release with him, we were just talking. Then I put it to him that we would like to put a record out with him. That’s how that started.
Have you finished the album? When is it going to be out?
The ep through Disaro is going to be out November 23. The record release party was on Halloween when we played that show in LA. Unfortunately the records weren’t ready from the plant yet, but we had a bunch of test pressings. The records will be shipped out on the 23rd. It’s a 6 song ep. The record is already sold out from the presales. Whoever has ordered it already will get it. Then they’re going to do another pressing and those will go out to the stores.
What is the name of your ep?
It’s called “Black Earth That Made Me”.
Is it different songs on the record from what you have up on your myspace?
They’re two unreleased songs that aren’t anywhere on the internet. The other songs, there are some on myspace and some are just floating around on youtube and other places.
What kind of response are you getting from people who like other Disaro releases, like oOoOO and Salem? Do they like your music too?
Definitely. I know John from Salem. We talk here and there. We did a release, a 7 inch single, with oOoOO. We’ve been talking to him for a few years. Everyone is very supportive of one another. That night in San Francisco is the first time I met Chris who is in oOoOO. It was so crazy because I was so used to talking to everyone on the internet about things. To be in a physical location next to one another and talking about what’s going on, it was really nice.
It was a very special show for me. It was the first time I was exposed to Witch House music, and that’s when I met all of you. Do you sample a lot of your drums and the sounds you get? Or do you play the parts?
The writing process is spent like half in gathering samples and making patches. The other half is spent writing the music. I do write all of the keyboards, I actually play it on the keyboard. Then I have MPC pads on my keyboards and I play as much of the drum parts as I can. There’s some high hat stuff that’s really fast and intricate that I have to program afterwards. I try to keep it as organic as possible, physically playing as much as possible.
Are there certain artists or music that you like to sample?
I really check around for drum stuff. I make like Rap sample patches and keep them. Do different things, compress ‘em, put reverb and distortion. Then I save those samples With the keyboards, at this point I try to just write the patches from scratch.
Are you influenced by bands like Joy Division and other bands from Factory Records? Your music really has that feeling.
Yeah! I’m glad to hear that. The first thing that made me want to play music was listening to Post Punk bands like Joy Division and Jesus & Mary Chain. What’s kind of depressing about that situation, when you’re influenced by something that happened decades before you got into it, is you can never really be a part of it. When I first started writing music I was trying to figure out what to do. Not just become like a Joy Division cover band and doing everything just the way they did it, because that’s not original. If Joy Division stared today they wouldn’t make the same kind of music. They would do something different. That’s why their music was so monumental, because it was so new at the time. As long as the original spirit is there, what you do create can be entirely different. What I worked on from the very beginning was doing something new that could only be done right now. Keep that spirit alive, but not just rip off that sound.
You don’t sound exactly like Joy Division, but you have that feeling, the essence of a Factory Records sound. The show at the Knockout reminded me of going to see certain bands in the early eighties like Glorious Din and Spahn Ranch. The atmosphere was very dark and tribal.
That’s what’s cool about working with people like Robert Disaro and oOoOO. The sound is definitely getting more accepted. I used to get in a lot of trouble deejaying because I would play like a New Order song and then follow with a Lil Wayne song. I always felt like there were similarities there. Robert obviously sees them, oOoOO sees them, Salem sees it. Now the lines are getting blurred more. A lot of Gucci Mane stuff and Waka Flocka Flame stuff can sound pretty dark and mysterious. And a lot of dark Electronic music that’s still in that world of Post Punk crosses into the Rap side, like slowed down drums. There’s definitely a connection there and I’m glad that other people see it also.
Which Electronic bands are doing darker music?
I like a lot of French Coldwave stuff like Asylum Party and Cold Dreams. All the Factory Records stuff is really good too. That’s what really got me into wanting to make music. All the way up until later Factory Records. Kendra and I both grew up on that stuff. Neither of us really listen to Joy Division anymore, only because we listened to it so much as kids. It’s so important. You have such an instant relationship with every song that it’s hard for us to listen to it anymore. But it’s always in us when we’re making music.
Do you listen to other Witch House artists?
I don’t listen to a ton of newer stuff because I want to keep my mind as clear as possible when I write. I like what oOoOO is doing a lot. I like what Salem is doing a lot too. There’s a band called Unison out of France, they make really good music. Robert will play me some other Disaro stuff. Raw Moans is really good too, that’s a Disaro band. Unison just signed onto Disaro as well. Robert’s doing a good job of gathering bands that are really good. Balam Acab is really good too.
It’s interesting that Robert Disaro is from Houston and grew up listening to DJ Screw.
This music is more about where you are on the internet than where you are physically. It got to the point where Robert was like a lone wolf in Houston, so he went to LA to make a bigger splash.
The artists are scattered all over. But there’s a strong connection in the words and images the Witch House bands use. Electronic music is a product of industrial background and grimy cities, but the Witch House music is more nature based, with images of forests and animals and natural elements.
You’re right. There were a few bands that were doing these kinds of things. All the bands you’ve mentioned were. Now it’s become part of the imagery. It all kind of makes sense. When we started doing it we were making music that was a dark subject matter. It’s easy to weigh it down too much and make it cheesy if you put really dark imagery. We both liked elemental like landscapes and natural forces. We went with that, and it works. It’s what people think of when they think of that kind of music. It’s less about modern urban society and decay, and more about a primal elemental world.
No other modern music that I can remember has captured that shamanistic pagan feeling the way Witch House has.
Some Neofolk bands and Metal bands do stuff that’s sort of similar to that. That’s part of it, to use visual aspects that create more of a reaction, even though it’s less typically fitting your sound.
Who are some artists that are doing Neofolk music?
Death In June are the ones that kind of started it all. That’s a band from the early eighties. They were from England. There’s a band called Of The Wand and the Moon that’s a US based Neofolk band. There are newer artists like King Dude.
oOoOO
What do you think of this movement that’s being called Witch House? Do you feel like you’re part of it?
I don’t know. I like a lot of the bands that journalists are calling Witch House. I can’t really say if I’m part of it or not. I just make music I make. If people consider it that, that’s fine with me. I try not to think about it too much, and just do my music. If you start thinking of yourself as a Witch House or a Drag artist, then you’re going to start making music that you think people expect artists like that to make.
What’s interesting to me is that there are people in different parts of the world making music that has a similar feel—like a dark, slow, emotional music mixed with Electronic and Hip Hop dance beats.
Sure. It’s interesting to me too. It’s kind of happening all over the world. There’s not really a center for it. It’s not happening in any one city, it’s all over the place.
It doesn’t seem like any of you are influenced by each other. Each artist sounds like they developed their sound independently. How long have you been doing oOoOO?
About two years now. I just started messing around with synthesizers and samples. I actually started out doing remixes. I thought that would be easier than making my own tracks. I did a couple of remixes and I thought they turned out good, so I kept going and tried to do some more.
Some of these bands are really into DJ Screw and JD Dilla and a lot of Rap music. Is that your background too?
I listen to a lot of Rap. When I was a kid I was listening to Hip Hop. I grew up outside of Manhattan, so New York Rap, like East Coast Rap, was a big influence on me. Nineties Rap especially, like Wu Tang Clan and Gangstarr and DJ Premier, people like that, I listened to a lot when I was a kid. DJ Screw—I knew who he was in like 2005, but that was after he died. I found out about Houston Rap through Swishahouse stuff like Slim Thug and those artists. It wasn’t until after that that I found out about DJ Screw.
Do you mix with the other artists who are part of this movement or are you just doing music out there on your own?
I’m kind of just way out there on my own. I feel like a lotta people in New York and London and Los Angeles to a certain extent are into this kind of music. I don’t feel like there’s a big scene for it in San Francisco. I live in San Francisco. People in London and New York first contacted me about my music. I still think even now there’s a bigger demand for it in those places. Slowly people are starting to find out about it. San Francisco is a real Rock & Roll town. People are still into Rock music and garage bands. So I feel like I’m on my own here.
When you perform what’s your setup?
I haven’t played too much. I’ve only played two shows. One show I played with a vocalist, my friend Lisa who records the vocals on a lot of the tracks I have. I did a show with her, and then one other time I just did a set by myself. It was a set with me and a laptop. I didn’t really think it went well. I haven’t really worked out how to do a live set that I liked, so I haven’t done many of them.
You were deejaying with Disaro at the Knockout when White Ring and Water Border were playing. Do you deejay a lot?
I deejay out quite a bit. It started because people wanted me to come play live shows and I said I hadn’t figured it out yet. People wanted me to come out and do something so I offered to come out and deejay. I’ve been doing that a lot too.
Did you listen to people like J Dilla a lot?
Not really. The closest thing to that that I listen to would be MF Doom. I like MF Doom. But J Dilla and the whole Stones Throw label, I’ve never really listened to them much.
What made you start doing the oOoOO project?
I was in grad school studying Comparative Literature. I figured that if I continued with school I wouldn’t really have a chance to do my music. I always wanted to do my own music. I’ve done stuff on other people’s projects, but I’ve never done my own thing. So I quit school and started working on music.
To me your music has a feel of San Francisco, that murky foggy atmosphere. Do you see that?
That’s true. I guess San Francisco has something of an influence on me. The city itself might influence the music. But in terms of other artists here, I don’t really feel connected to the scene here. It’s weird.
Your music at times reminds me of Dubstep artists like Burial.
Yeah, I love Burial.
With your music are you going to continue having a Lisa sing or just do it on your own?
I think I’m just gonna be me, with one other person when I do live shows. Lisa, who recorded a lot of the songs with me on the ep that just came out, I’m not working with her anymore. I’m actually looking for somebody else now to record new songs with and to do live shows. It’s gonna be a while before I actually start doing shows I think.
A lot of people are talking about oOoOO. A lot of people are excited about what you’re doing. How did you get your name out, was it through the internet?
Yeah. I just got lucky. So many people put their music out through the internet but nobody hears it. I really didn’t do anything. I put some songs on myspace. Then after a month or so I started sending mp.3 out to different blogs, and they started posting them. Then other blogs saw those and they started posting them too. It just happened. I didn’t even try that hard.
Was it after you were getting known that you learned about the other artists who are called Witch House like Salem and Disaro?
I already knew about Salem and Disaro actually before I started making music. I found out about Disaro and the music they were putting out back in 2007 or something. I had met Robert Disaro one time. Only in the last year or so a lot of these other bands started popping up, but a couple of years ago it was only like Salem and White Ring.
A lot of these bands incorporate images of nature and animals alongside sorcery, paganism and shamanism. Do you come across like that too?
It’s interesting because that’s one of the main reason I don’t consider myself a Witch House artist. I’m not really into that stuff, like the occult and paganism. I’m not into that sort of stuff. I stay away from the whole occult and that kind of stuff.
How would you describe what you’re doing?
It’s a hard question to answer. People ask me that all the time and I never know what to say. I tell them I make Pop music that will never get played on the radio. I usually just say it’s Electronic music. I don’t know what else to call it really. Maybe Electronic music with Hip Hop beats and Pop music vocals.
I like to see these different types of music merging with Rap because I feel like Rap is at a standstill right now. Rap music is getting recycled too much, and it’s very stagnant right now.
I agree. Ever since it became really commercial. Rap used to be an experimental music. It became really popular and people made a lotta money just doing the same thing over and over again. The major labels killed it in a lotta ways. There’s still some new stuff coming out that I like. Like Lex Luther and Gucci Mane and Waka Flocka. I like all that stuff. It’s not THAT new and exciting, but it’s good. Like when Wu Tang first came out it was so different—I don’t think anything that different has come out in a long time. Will B from Oakland—I like his stuff.
What motivates you to make music? What makes you create?
I might not be the best at it, but I feel like I have a good ear for sounds and for production. I listen to so much music; it takes up so much of my time and so much of what I’m interested in is music and sounds. I don’t know. I don’t even really think about it, I just do it. I don’t really understand why I’m compelled to do music.
It’s like you’re possessed by music and sound.
You could say that.
You’re always listening to music?
That’s pretty much all I do.
Do you walk around the city listening to music?
Actually I don’t listen to music in headphones. When I wake up in the morning I put the coffeemaker on and I put music on immediately.
You wake up with music and as you go to sleep you play music too?
Exactly. If I’m in a car—I don’t drive but if I’m in a car with somebody else and they have music on—I could go from one place to another like 20 times and I still won’t remember how to get there. I can’t focus on where I’m going, I just listen to the music. I can’t even pay attention to the road.
I can see who you are listening to your music, it really comes through. That’s the way Burial is too; he’s really into making the music.
I’ve read interviews with Burial and I love the way he talks about music He’s totally consumed by it. He says it’s always in his head at all times.
Do you go out to clubs a lot to see music?
Not too much lately. I’ve been deejaying a lot so I go out to do that. I might go to a bar that’s close by with some friends, but I don’t really go to clubs too much. I went to see Glasser last week. That was the first show I went to in months that I didn’t have to deejay at. That was a really good show.
What clubs do you deejay at?
I deejay at Milkbar in the Haight sometimes. I’m gonna be deejaying at The Mighty in a couple of weeks. Lazor Sword’s gonna be playing there and I’ll be deejay for that. And at the Knockout on Mission.
It’s too bad that all of these clubs are only for people over 21. A lot of fans into oOoOO and the Witch House music are under 21.
I know. Most of the people that like this music are under 21. It’s crazy. I feel like especially in San Francisco the people who go to the clubs are in their mid-twenties and early thirties. It’s so expensive, there’s not a lot of 21 year olds even.
What are some interesting artists that you’ve been listening to lately?
I’ve been listening to a lot of Pop music lately. Like Marina and the Diamonds, I’ve been listening to that album a lot. I actually did a remix to that. I sent it to her people a couple of days ago, so I’m really excited. The Waka Flocka Flame record, the “Flockaveli” record, I listen to that a lot. Rick Ross too, I like him a lot. Pariah from UK, he just came out with that ep “Safe Houses”. He’s like a Dubstep artist that I’ve been listening to a lot. I’ve been listening to Trees, they’re also from UK. They’re really good.
I feel like there’s a lot of good music happening. Where do you see this Witch House movement heading?
I have a feeling all the media attention will die down and we won’t hear too much about it anymore, but all these people will keep making music. There isn’t really a scene. There isn’t like one place where all of these people are gathered. It’s not like back in the old days when there was like a New Wave scene in Manhattan or the Hip Hop scene. Everybody’s kind of off on their own doing their own thing. It will be interesting to see how that affects and changes the music. I don’t know where it’s going. It’s hard to say because so much happens on the internet.
Do you listen to a lot of Folk music? I get that feeling in your music too.
I like some of that stuff. I really like Jana Hunter a lot and Metallic Falcons and CocoRosie. Those are all kind of Folk, I guess. I do like some of that.
How do you find all the music that you listen to?
I look at music blogs and on myspace and what friends tell me they’re listening to. Not really people here in San Francisco, it’s more like friends who are in New York, people on the internet. San Francisco really feels like a small town in a lot of ways. It’s weird because innovation in technology is really big here. Like Google and Facebook and all of the computer technology is centered in the Bay Area, but in terms of art I feel like it’s really stagnant. Especially with music, people keep wanting to do the same thing over and over. Like the East Bay Punk music scene hasn’t changed in 20 years, the garage music. It’s not bad, I like a lot of it, but I feel like strangely San Francisco is a place where new music catches on really slowly.
I’ve seen that in a lot of big cities where there’s so much going on but really there’s nothing going on. If you go to a smaller town they’re not too distracted so something original can really grow. A lot of the new artists I hear are not concerned as much about the lyrical content, or even if you can understand it.
That’s partly true. I don’t really spend a lot of time on my lyrics. It’s like the last thing I do. I get the melody and the vocals, and then I just plug the words in. As long as they don’t sound bad or corny, they don’t have to be great. They get covered up by so many effects anyway. Even though I have vocals in my music, I still think of it as instrumental music in a way. The vocals are just another instrument in my music rather than something separate, so the voice is more to evoke emotions rather than for a message.
It’s like when you listen to music coming from different parts of the world. You don’t understand what they’re saying, but you still get the emotions, the feelings that are in the words.
I think so too. And also sometimes words could mean one thing to me, and to somebody else it means something else. If somebody hears my music and thinks it’s about something totally different from what I intended, that’s fine with me too.
It’s like, what’s dark to you might not be dark to somebody else. When you create music do you play instruments?
Mostly I use synthesizers. Sometimes I use instruments too. I’ve done a couple of songs where I actually play guitar myself. It’s weird cause a lotta people think that my music uses samples and it really doesn’t. Sometimes I’ll use vocal samples, but most of the time I play all the sounds myself. I have one song called “Hearts” and it has a bass guitar and an electric guitar in it—I just played them myself. It’s mostly synthesizers and software drum machines, but sometimes I use other instruments. I play piano.
You can play a lot of instruments?
I don’t know if I’m any good at playing any of them, but I can play a lot of different instruments. I’m recording at home so I don’t have to worry about being in a studio and worrying about how much it costs to get everything right. I can do 20 takes and keep trying until I get it right.
Are there certain sounds that you gravitate towards when you’re making music?
I like a lotta minor chords. I think pretty much everything I’ve done is in a minor key. And really slow music, really heavy bass drums. Usually heavy bass and minor keys is gonna be in whatever music I do.
You have an ep out that people can buy?
Yeah. It’s self-titled. The vinyl, the 12 inch, has sold out. I guess Tri Angle, the record label that put it out, is pressing more. You can get it on iTunes or Juno or any of those. It’s six songs. Five of my songs and then Visions of Trees has a remix on it.
Are you working on a full length album?
Yeah. I have a bunch of songs that are like sketches and I need to work on them and flush them out. I wanna put out an LP sometime in the first half of next year. I’m probably gonna spend all my time this winter working on the songs.
How did you get your name?
I don’t like band names, I didn’t want to have one. When I thought of that name it was like the closest to not having a name, like a bunch of circles. I just came up with it on the spot when I was putting up songs.
