VILLAINS / WOLFTOWN RECORDINGS
Interview by Rick Thorne. Photo by Brian Bartholomew
From Murder Dog Vol 9 #2 (2002)
What lead to the hip-hop scene falling off here?
Late: I think there’s a lot of things why it died but you’ve gotta admit
fuckin’ dance music did take a big part of it. The whole club culture
of Es and acid and goin’ out and not bein’ serious any more and just
fuckin’ gettin’ off their heads. People was attracted to that.
Tricksta: I think what happened, going back to that ‘80s/’90s thing,
is that it potentially began to get to the stage where bands like the
Sindicut were signed to Virgin, had like a six-figure
advance, it was
beginning to happen. But them acts wasn’t the right acts.
Late: IMD had a deal with MCA, the album never got fuckin’ released because
of politics. Threw a big figure at it.
Tricksta: So what you’ve got there you’ve got major labels in this country
paid advances, haven’t recouped ‘coz the composition hasn’t been made,
the recording of the album hasn’t been made, so it can never get released
so it can never earn money back. So what happens is the major label goes
‘I’ve done the hip-hop thing, it didn’t work. Let’s do the drum n’ bass
thing.’ It ain’t just one artist. The whole genre. In the same way, you
can just see the fall of So Solid Crew. Because So Solid Crew are good
but they’ve got too many people fuckin’ hatin’ on them. People are gonna
make ‘em drop off.
Late: The media will.
Tricksta: And when that happens in a year’s time, when it filters through,
they’ll be a fuckin’ backlash against ‘urban’ music. It’s gonna be hard
but what the hip-hop scene’s gotta do, when the U.K. garage thing goes
it’s gotta be there to go ‘right, here’s your alternative ‘coz you need
one’ but it’s gotta be ready. What scares me is we ain’t gonna be ready.
And it could be like ‘right we’ve done the fuckin’ urban thing, it ain’t
worked, we fuckin’ tried the hip-hop thing eight years ago, that didn’t
work either, the R n’ B acts have gone’. And all of a sudden you’ve got
guitar music comin’ back, you got fuckin’ house gettin’ more breakbeat
y’know what I mean.
Do you think it’s also due to the majors misunderstanding the music?
Tricksta: If there’s any major labels reading this I want you to know,
‘coz this is so important for the fuckin’ scene—don’t sign acts, sign
labels. Please don’t sign acts. You won’t be able to manage ‘em and they’ll
upset ya. They’ll smoke a lot of weed, they’ll piss you off. Sign the
label. Let the label deal with them artists and you deal with people
who can run a label. That’s the way we have to do it then you won’t never
have to meet the artist and there’s never no problem. That’s the way
we gotta do it over here man.
Late: Majors aren’t gonna sign any acts until they see us sellin’ 10,000
and bein’ serious about it ourselves. They see us sellin’ 10,000 on the
underground and they’re gonna invest.
So you’re saying the people at those labels can’t relate to the artist?
Late: No possible way.
Tricksta: We need obviously the finance, the marketing strategies, the
distribution strategies and the licensing strategies of the majors. That’s
about it. We don’t need their advice on how to be in the scene because
I’m fuckin’ from Wolverhampton and I’m sittin’ here doin’ an interview
with a magazine from America. So what’s that show ya? Are you gonna do
that? Are Universal gonna hook me up with an interview with Murder Dog,
get Black Dog to go ‘yeah, yeah, okay cool. I’ll get my U.K. cats to
come up and interview ya’. No. Sign the label. The label will profile
the artist how it needs to be profiled. Wolftown is a record label but
we got it goin’ on, we got the magazine, we doin’ videos, we into short
films. We’re tryna build a fuckin’ empire. With cash injection, Wolftown,
game over man. No Limit in the U.K. all over again.
How did you manage to get your records out?
Tricksta: We seeked a distribution deal which is what a lot of the people
in the U.K. have got to do. Personally my opinion is people go to distributors
ain’t got no product. The distributor thinks ‘right okay, I’m gonna get
two twelve-inches a year to put out’. It ain’t even worth the paper work,
it’s gonna sell 500-1000, it ain’t worth it. We went in there and said
‘we’re gonna do this, we’re gonna do that’ and we do get respect for
this. Everything we’ve said we’re gonna do we’ve done. Them
three albums right, the Villains, the Vicious Circle, the Wolftown Committee
were decided the day we started the label. We said we’re gonna start
a magazine, we did it, we said we’re gonna do videos low budget we’ve
done it. We’ve even got play on MTV dy’know what I mean? Everything we’ve
fuckin’ said we’re gonna do we’ve done.
What kind of response have you had since you’ve been on the scene?
Tricksta: The first single got five out of five in Hip-Hop Connection,
‘Single of the Month’. And I know that pissed a lot of people off. It
was a blazin’ review. Then boom, fuck me here’s the album. I know it
ain’t strange for someone who’s into hip-hop to think they’re building
up over eight months, that sounds about right, single, single, album.
But in England that’s strange.
So that album did well enough to set up the future stuff?
Tricksta: The Villains album done enough. It’s still sellin’ as I speak
because people are still finding out about the label and that’s the one
they come for first ‘coz it’s the first release.
Late: Introducing you to the first batch of emcees and to the way we
live basically.
Does your music have a distinctive U.K. sound?
Tricksta: Yeah, definitely. Everyone raps in their own accent. I’ve got
bare love for America but what I won’t have is people tryna rap in American
accents ‘coz that ain’t real.
Late: And rappin’ about things that they ain’t doin’.
Tricksta: Late ain’t gonna rap about havin’ a lowrider because he ain’t
got a lowrider. Yet. There’s limitations, we have to keep it real. That’s
very important to us.
Your album artwork and imagery jumps out at a lot of people. Do you relate
to the U.S. gangsta shit?
Late: To get that cover, I always had that image of the four of us outside
the block of flats. I had that image from when I started the group, I
already had the cover ‘coz when I see something I get amped as an artist,
I’ve got it all planned out in my head already anyway. And I’d seen the
way Pen & Pixel, like it or not you’ve gotta pick it up. And originally
we was gonna get the album done by Pen & Pixel but we couldn’t afford
it on the budget we was on and this is why we hooked up with the artwork
guy and that’s how he got tied into Wolftown.
Tricksta: We just knew it would cause so much attention when we did it.
People would think ‘Who the fuck are these?! Who do they think are?!’
dy’know what I mean, which a lot of people did. Which got everybody on
the web site checkin’ the music, when they heard the music it started
selling.
Late: I like that artwork, that’s the artwork I’m into if you look at
all my CDs. I’m fuckin’ a fiend for Pen & Pixel shit man, a fiend
for it!
Do each of you play different roles in the running of Wolftown Records?
Tricksta: Late is visual, he’s a very visual person. That’s why
he does the storyboards for the videos and all the basic concepts and
designs to give to the artwork guy. And that’s why I deal with the other
shit, I deal with the distributor more and I’m on the phone tryna link
things up. He’ll say ‘I think we should do a track with my man’ and I’ll
phone him and sort it out.
Do you think you took a lot of that from what was going on in the independent
scene in the States?
Tricksta: I think we took a lot of inspiration from the independent scene
period.
Late: Which Murder Dog to be honest helped us.
How long have you been reading Murder Dog?
Late: I can go back a few years. Once I seen that I was addicted. See
I’m a very addictive person, whatever I do I get addicted to it and that’s
the way I am. Like my cars, I always drive BMs ‘coz I’m addicted to BMs.
I go full-on in everything I do.
Tricksta: When he says the next two years are planned out they are. There’s
albums that ain’t been made yet that’ve got release dates. The idea’s
there in his head.
So you’ve taken in those influences from everywhere.
Tricksta: It wasn’t just there, there was other places as well. The French
scene, the German scene, the Canadian scene, the sort of independent
scene that was comin’ out of L.A. like your Ground Control Records, then
you got Landspeed over in New York, things that they were doin’. Just
watchin’ everything but predominantly the way the people on the west
coast and down south do it. The deejays support the music, the music
supports the deejay, the emcees support the music, everyone’s earnin’
off it, everyone’s happy. There’s no bad vibe, there’s no beef ‘coz my
man ain’t playin’ my music. I’ll tell ya one thing I’ve gotta say as
well, R.I.P. DJ Screw because that was a great loss dy’know what I mean.
Wolftown bare love to DJ Screw. I’m never gonna get the opportunity to
get Screwed.
Who are some of the other cats you’ve been speaking to from the U.S.?
Late: K-Rino, Mr. D.O.G. Coolnutz, Jus Family Records. Lil CS, feelin’
him.
Tricksta: Kidd X and SD3, they’re comin’ out of San Jose. Strippa 1 and
Playboy. Cee Rock The Fury, Queensbridge. Roxbury Rituals outta Boston.
Lord Roc, Regents Park in the Bronx.
Late: Bullet & Shaolin, they’re from Portland, they’re down with
Cool Nutz. Lyrical Lizard representin’ Gary, Indiana, the Midwest.
Why did you start your own magazine Rago?
Late: We had to because no one else was ever gonna give us anything.
We’ve always deejayed so we’ve always got records through the post but
since starting the magazine I’ve contacted a lot of labels and it’s a
wicked advertising tool.
Tricksta: We’ve gotta say y’know a lot of it was inspired by Murder Dog.
It’s a good networking tool, even in England on a small scale you’ve
got people from Sheffield making records with people from London because
of the magazine. What you’ve also got is people like us makin’ records
with people from the States. Hip-hop is now a global thing,
like it or not man. I mean it started in America, it’s an American music,
a lot of the best stuff still comes out of America. But it is more global
now. There’s hip-hop crews in Africa, in Australia, France, Sweden, Germany
and they’re puttin’ it on man, they’re havin’ a right go.
Late: In the States you got Murder Dog but there’s nowhere else for people
who are up and comin’ to send your demo or your little EP and get some
sort of advice or a review or something that you can take somewhere else.
So we’ve set this up because we know how hard it is, havin’ a label ourselves.
Do you cover all different types of rap in the magazine?
Late: Yeah yeah. We do like that sorta grimy Mobb Deep sound, they’re
representin’ where them livin’ which is how the west coast man are. But
they don’t get represented either so we try to get people like Lord Roc,
underground New York artists.
Tricksta: We try and get as much in there as we can, we’re just enthusiasts
of the music. We are always on the look out to link with as many people
as possible. If you’re a rapper and you’ve got a label get in touch with
us, bring it on, the more the merrier.
What’s coming up from Wolftown?
Late: We’ve got Wolftown Committee album first. That’s got everyone on
Wolftown and a couple of surprises.
Tricksta: That’s the third release on the label. Wolftown
Committee is basically Late and Tricksta from Villains, Vicious Circle,
Lee Dee, Wayney G, Jai-Boo, Wolftown’s first lady, fuckin’ High Timez
who’s more of a ragga style, and Conman who’s just on some next shit.
It’s everybody puttin’ their energy into one album. There’s no samples,
it’s like a natural vibe so as a producer I’m about to go into the next
zone which is gonna be a fuckin’ heavy one dy’know what I mean. Then
we’ve got the International Rhyme Spittin’ which confirms the fact that
Wolftown Recordings is a label that releases hip-hop and rap music period,
not just a U.K. hip-hop label.
Late: Every music’s got its place in hip-hop. You can live within hip-hop
and not have to listen to anything else. You got your R n’ B laidback
stuff to smoke to and shag to. You’ve got some Miami stuff, carnival
party music. Levels of anger, levels of love.
Tricksta: I’m fuckin’ pissed off now put Mobb Deep on. Now I’m really
pissed off put Brotha Lynch Hung on. Your mum comes round you can put
Common Sense on. I’m very open minded when it comes to hip-hop.
How did Villains get together as a group?
Late: Round about '95, '96 we started to make records, deejaying, promoting club nights, doin' radio shows. Grew up with Tricksta, went to school together and hooked up with Profesah 194, and he was the third member of Villains. That was Tricksta doin' the deejaying, me and Profesah doin' the lyrics. We started writin' and then Profesah got five years.
Did he get out in time to do the album?
Late: It was '96 when he got five years, he come out after two-and-a-half.
Tricksta: So Profesah, Late and myself knew this rapper called Nugsta
and he had a mutual friend IMD who was like 'I wanna fuckin' get movin',
I wanna produce a fuckin' album, I wanna get shit out' and us, 'we
need a fuckin' producer, we wanna start a label', so we met him and
we just hit it off. It was IMD doin' the beats, all the engineering
and all the playin', me doin' some co-production on some tracks, just
bein' in the crew really, also kinda like spokesman, the man who'd
go and sort things out. So what you got is Villains, which is four
people, and one member who'd never met the other, Profesah and IMD.
Did you two live close to each other?
Tricksta: We’ve rolled tight like that since we was like 14. When I
moved school I just met Late and just rolled with Late. I’m 29 now, it’s
been like that since I was like 14. And High Timez used to live next
door but one and Vicious Circle, that’s like a family as well. So it’s
been like that. Then we met IMD and started recording the album and that
was what, ’98.
Late: Basically Profesah had done about two years and we’d started recording,
we was waiting for him to come out, we’d done about 16 tracks. When he
came out, spat on the tracks, one take sort of thing, we put the album
to bed, put it out and basically that was the Villains album.
What made you decide to form your label Wolftown Recordings?
Tricksta: I was working at a music group, a bunch of different labels
and stuff. So I was runnin’ these labels anyway. We both agreed from
day one it’s no good lookin’ for a deal because no one’s gonna give us
the deal we want. Because when I say to the man we need a million the
man’s gonna laugh in my face. But when I break it down why I need a million
he still ain’t gonna understand but that’s how much I need to do what
I need to do. I can’t get that money to do it so it’s a waste of time
bein’ on a major. I’ve got to do this independent because no one’s gonna
understand the things we wanna do. He ain’t gonna understand why we wanna
start a magazine and give all the other people in the scene love. A major
label’s not gonna understand why you should do that, it’s all about lookin’
after yourself dy’know what I mean? Stickers, flyers, posters, the distribution
angle of it, the musical content.
And they don’t have that confidence in U.K. hip-hop?
Tricksta: No and to be honest the Villains haven’t got that confidence
in the majors. We’ve seen a lot of British acts get signed and dropped
and it ending up ruining mans’ careers. The Villains album was never
ever gonna come out on any other label apart from Wolftown and that’s
why we did it.
Was the label formed by both of you?
Tricksta: Wolftown Recordings was formed by Late and Tricksta. 50/50
partners.
Late: So we was gonna do a twelve-inch, a white label and we thought
‘hang on let’s do it properly’. We’d seen how the Americans was goin’
on with like Master P with the quality thing and we thought the image,
the artwork, the quality of it’s gotta be fuckin’ on point.
Tricksta: We also knew to be honest that no one else was watchin’ the
things we were watchin’ and to this day I still don’t think people, not
even now are watchin’ what we’re watchin’.
Late: Jay-Z’s watchin’ what we’re watchin’.
Tricksta: Yeah, and London man are watchin’ Jay-Z. People ain’t seen
the things we’ve seen. There’s that much blinkeredness over here, and
I’m not blamin’ the heads, it’s not the heads fault, ‘coz the heads only
know what the media portray. And there’s a whole fuckin’ bunch of hip-hop
that’s not gettin’ represented. There’s like 15 percent of what’s goin’
on gets represented on MTV and in the magazines, your big artists. The
other 85 percent that’s out there, fuckin’ hell, there’s cats out there
that people ain’t ready for over here, dy’know what I mean? I’ve gotta
be honest. As soon as we started the Villains thing ya know, we ain’t
stupid, two black guys, two white guys, that’s a brave move. For two
white guys in the hip-hop scene in England to go out like that. Like
‘yes it’s us, yes we’re fuckin’ white, yes there’s gold fonts’.
Late: And not hide behind our logo.
Tricksta: Come and roll with me and I’ll show you how I fuckin’ live.
And then you’ll understand, dy’know what I mean? And a lot of people
at first were like what are we fuckin’ steppin’ into here? ‘Coz that
Villains album cover, and I still say it today is invitin’ you into the
label. Welcome To Wolftown – we’ve fuckin’ landed, we’re here,
we’re British, we’re not from London, we’re from the Midlands, this is
a different flex and this is how we’re goin’ on. That’s why the album’s
called Welcome To Wolftown. That album is an introduction to
the label.
Did you christen Wolverhampton with the name Wolftown?
Late: Wolftown is the street name for Wolves anyway, it was a street talk
thing representin’ Wolftown.
Tricksta: Wolverhampton used to be a town until about six months ago, they
just made it a city.
What was it like for you growing up here?
Late: I grew up on the outskirts of Wolverhampton. I’m the only white person
in the street, dy’know what I mean, pure Asian and black people in the street.
I was there ‘til I was four, basically mum and dad divorced, kicked out the
yard, he sold the house out from under us and was left homeless. My mum and
me had to live with my nan for two years and then we basically moved to the
outskirts of Wolverhampton, which is called Moxley. So you’ve got Wolverhampton
there’s a city, and you got a place next to it called Walsall. It’s the same
size as Wolverhampton but it’s a bit more backward, it’s a bit less cultured,
it’s a bit more ragga. So I’m on the outskirts there between Wolverhampton
and fuckin’ Walsall and where it is it’s fuckin’ racist, it’s proper fuckin’
racist mentality dy’know what I mean, cars on drives.
Tricksta: Which is hard if you’re white and you’ve got a skinhead and you
go out with a black girl.
Late: But basically I’ve always gone to a Wolverhampton school ‘coz I started
school there before I’d moved so I’ve had to travel sorta thing. The school
I went to was cultured dy’know what I mean, the alternative was like a fuckin’
backward sorta redneck school, council estate sort of thing. And that’s where
I met Tricksta because Tricksta was from Walsall and he came to Wolverhampton.
Tricksta: I was born in Wolves, we used to live in Wolverhampton then we
moved out to fuckin’ Walsall, then I come back to Wolves.
Late: Same sorta set-up, single mother sort of thing.
Tricksta: You wanna know about me, if you wanna know about Tricksta you’ve
gotta buy the Wolftown Committee album and you’ve gotta pump the tune called
‘Maintain’. If you buy that album and you pump that tune you know everything
about me. That track is my life, it’s the only track I’m gonna do on Wolftown
where I spit the whole song all myself. There will never be another one, that’s
the gem for that album. I’ve dropped my life up until about eight weeks ago.
From like he’s sayin’ family background shit about my dad used to hit my mum,
left when I was one. I’m not sayin’ I had it hard but I didn’t have it easy
dy’know what I mean? But I never knew anyone that had two parents, a proper
mum and a dad anyway. So it wasn’t like ‘you’re the odd one out Tricksta’.
Late: Typical council estate livin’ basically. That’s what all Wolftown
man basically is.
How did you get into hip-hop?
Late: High Timez, he had family in America so he introduced me and him to
hip-hop sorta thing. He used to go to New York.
Tricksta: He’s comin’ back with all belts with his name on.
Late: This is like ’82, ’83, he’s comin’ back with these red furry hats,
Kangols, rockin’ them dy’know what I mean? Basically so I grew up on hip-hop,
y’know breakdancing, done the grafitti, then one album came out – and that
was Ice-T Power. The album’s alright but one song, and you know the song is
‘High Rollers’. And that song basically changed my life. Because until then
I was a petty thief, a petty person. That showed me the tailored suit, the
luxury, woke me up to bein’ proper.
Tricksta: High Timez had connections in New York so a lot of stuff I was
hearin’ was what High Timez was playin’ me. In all fairness I got into hip-hop
later, I was like three years behind dy’know what I mean? I kinda got this
Just-Ice, BDP, Public Enemy and EPMD thing goin’ on, then Late was like ‘nah,
Ice-T man, Geto Boys’. Back in the day it wasn’t a coast thing, and then I
went out off my own back and I bought an NWA vinyl, full cover, and it had
white people polishing black man’s shoes. And it cost me £7 (roughly $11) and
I was a fuckin’ Saturday boy in a butcher’s. I come back with this record and
the man went ‘let’s have a look at what you bought’, I go ‘you won’t understand’,
he goes ‘what ya bought?!’ I go ‘alright then’. And then from there we just
rolled tight and we just got on it man. There was like five or six people in
the crew and we was like ‘if you buy that, I’ll buy that’.
Late: The first crew was when we was kids man, and that was our grafitti,
thievin’, we used to go out every day robbin’ for clothes, pens. It was all
hip-hop related theft. I’d go out, don’t forget I was 14, 15, we’d go and rob
factories and things like that for spray paints and pens and you’d nick the
petty cash and you’d leave the computer and you’d be there fuckin’ robbin’
pens. That’s how on it we were with the hip-hop thing.
So what were you doing before you started making music?
Tricksta: Still tryna crave recognition.
Late: That’s growin’ up with no love basically.
Tricksta: Look I’m fuckin’ here, my name’s everywhere! I am here, someone
fuckin’ take note. And that is in me and Late anyway, dy’know what I mean?
Wolftown as a record label’s got so much energy in it, it can’t fail. The energy,
the belief in what we’re fuckin’ doin’, we know. Like ‘oh my god, you’ve sold
10 fuckin’ million albums!’ Y’know I ain’t shocked, dy’know what I mean? The
stuff we’re puttin’ out, there ain’t fuckin’ no man that can go up against
that. Not over these sides anyway, can go really up against that stuff. They
can’t get the fuckin’ beats sounding tight enough, they can’t get the vocals
recorded the way we do it. Like I say they’re very blinkered, they’re jammin’
Westwood and that’s all there really is.
Late: We’ve watched people from the South rise and the reason they’ve
rose is because of self-sufficiency. That’s the whole crew thing here.
Tricksta: When we was round here we had MTV on and Master P had his video
played for the first time and it was like ‘gwarn P! Yes Percy, fuckin’
gwarn!’ Dy’know what I mean? My man’s fuckin’ on MTV. And then it was
like fuckin’ No Limit’s rising and then he starts to come. And it was
like ‘Go on Percy, go on P fuckin’ do it!’ When he blew we was stood
there like ‘that’s a made man!’
For more info: www.wolftown.co.uk
