Interview with Swizz Beatz

By David Friedman

Let’s start out by talking about your solo album, "G.H.E.T.T.O. Stories." What are your thoughts on the project?

It’s classic. It has artist collaborations that were never done before in history. It’s just my first solo album. Everything on there’s different; it’s not like the album is just the same back-to-back stuff. It goes from hip-hop to R&B to rock ’n’ roll. It covers all areas. It’s a double CD. One is the album and one is the instrumental of the album. So in case somebody wants to get their rap skills up or in case somebody likes the track but doesn’t like the artist, they can still ride to it.

Are most of the guests on your album artists you’ve worked with in the past?

Except for Metallica, yeah. I mean, this is my first time working with Metallica. But as far as everybody else, Busta (Rhymes) I’m very cool with, Noreaga … The new people I worked with were Shyne and Metallica. Everybody else, we’ve been close for a long time.

There is also a track, "Guilty," you did with dancehall star Bounty Killer. How did that collaboration come about?

Me and Bounty Killer are cool and I was working on a situation where I was supposed to be signing him to my label. He’s like the DMX of Jamaica. I just feel his vibe. I think a lot of people are tryin’ to come with stuff, but he is the originator of all that hardcore, updated stuff.

Producing songs that are huge club hits has always been a big part of what you do. What is the key to making a hit for the clubs?

The hook and the beat. You’ve just gotta have a creative surrounding. Like me, I come up with it instantly because it’s just my little gift that I have—-coming up with hooks and making party beats. That stuff I don’t have a hard time with. A lot of people, they really have a hard time with that. When I see people have a hard time, I don’t understand why. But God don’t bless everybody with the same gifts.

You’ve got Lil’ Kim, Bryan "Baby" Williams from the Big Tymers and LL Cool J rapping on your solo album. But then you include Metallica, Bounty Killer and Ron Isley in the mix. So you cover Metal, Dancehall and Soul right there. What was it like working with artists in other genres?

It’s just like I did Limp Bizkit’s ‘Rollin,’ I did Marilyn Manson, scored ‘Any Given Sunday’ — all before this. It’s just that I never made it a big thing as far as with the media. But I’ve always been on that type of stuff. I just didn’t get onto MTV News and say it every time. But I’ve always been involved in more than rap, so that’s why I wanted to express my album like that. I have Rock ’n’ Roll fans. I have R&B fans and Hip-Hop fans. I didn’t want to just do an all Hip-Hop album, ’cause that’s not only what I do.

Rap fans associate you with your work with the Ruff Ryders label and your production on DMX’s three albums, which have sold more than 12 million copies combined. You’ve also produced platinum albums for Eve and done extensive work with The L.O.X. What is it that draws you into other genres as a producer?

It’s more challenging because there’s different rules. You know, with a rock thing you’ve gotta coincide with the band. With the R&B thing, you’ve gotta find the right everything. You’ve gotta fit the category to the team, where in Hip-Hop you can pretty much do whatever you feel.

I know you were deejaying parties, at times for $600 a gig, before you even began working as a producer. Who do you consider to be your musical influences?

I never really had no producer influences because I never knew I was gonna produce. So I wasn’t really studying producers. I was deejaying. I had Red Alert, Chuck Chillout, you know, all the old school deejays. Kid Capri, all those people were people that I knew about. I never knew about producers because producers weren’t in the front line back then. When I started makin’ beats, I never was really thinkin’ about no producers. I was just like ‘Oh, I’ve gotta add a drum beat and get a special mix on this a cappella and have my mix tapes sounding different from everybody else’s mix tapes because I’m making my own beats.’ And then that just led to somethin’ else. But when I got into the game and started looking into producers, as far as respecting, I respected everybody that worked hard.

Dr. Dre and Timbaland diss Jermaine Dupri on the song "What You Say," a b-side to Eminem’s "Without Me" single. Jermaine came back with a freestyle diss. Have you picked a side in the Jermaine Dupri vs. Dre and Timbaland battle?

I just let them do their thing. It’s probably bigger than what you think. It probably could have started out with something that don’t even have nothing to do with rap, but certain people express their ways differently. Like if that was me, we wouldn’t be making no songs. It’s another thing when it’s Nas and Jay-Z goin’ back and forth. That’s what it is. But when you’ve got producers goin’ back and forth, it makes the rap game look like the wrestling federation, which is a gimmick. Jermaine Dupri is a cool person. He’s not out there fightin’ like that, goin’ crazy. Timbaland, he’s laid back. He’s not out there goin’ crazy. Dre, he’s like a vet. So that just don’t add up. When you hear these people arguing and soundin’ crazy on the record, it’s not like they’re in the videos or onstage acting crazy and ‘Fuck this and fuck that.’ They’re really all cool people with a little disagreement, I’d just say they could have talked that out over the phone.

What kind of music did you listen to while you were growing up in the Bronx?

Definitely Hip-Hop. All hip-hop because that’s all they had in the Bronx. I liked Eric B & Rakim because that was from the Bronx. Boogie Down Productions was No. 1. And everybody else-—I liked everything from back in the day. I was just so young and just so into it that it didn’t really matter. It wasn’t all political like how it is now.

Did you grow up with both of your parents?

I was with my mother more than my father, ’Cause he was runnin’ around deejayin’ and we were movin’, and they got separated. So I was with my mother. Everything was cool though.

Did you start deejaying at parties while you were living in New York or after you moved to Atlanta?

That started in New York when I got some equipment from my step-pops. Then my uncles and them, they started getting some equipment. And I just started running around, messing around. I used to be on punishment a lot, so I used to stay in my room and just come up with all types of stuff. I’d steal my step-pop’s records and just try all types of things until I finally started to get the hang of it.

You were just 16 when you went to work for your uncles, Ruff Ryders co-CEOs Joaquin and Darrin Dean. What was it like for you doing that at such an early age?

Just because the owners of Ruff Ryders are my family, it was still hard. They didn’t accept everything I did. I was like, ‘Come with somethin else.’ They made it real hard, which paid off at the end of the day because I earned my stripes. I didn’t have a silver spoon. I still had to struggle, grind. So that’s why I respect all levels of what I do--because it wasn’t just given to me. I had to earn it.

When you started working for your uncles’ label, you taught yourself how to produce from scratch. How did you teach yourself how to make beats?

Just being around all that equipment and wantin’ to learn. Having a little bit of the deejaying helped my vibe. It let me know what things were supposed to sound like, just from deejaying parties. So when I was messin’ with the records, I would luck up on somethin’ like ‘Oh, that’s it right there!’ And I just stuck to it.

What kind of equipment did you use when you started producing and what do you use these days?

They just upgrade them. I started with a drum machine called Doctor Rhythm. From there, I was messing with samplers that were on the mixer. And, after that, I upgraded to Akai, which was the first MP that was ever out. Now, I’ve got an MP-4000. I went from MP-1 to MP-4000.

Are there certain instruments that you really like to incorporate into your music?

I like a lot of weird sounds. I like a lot of bongos, toms, live drums. Like, from a band, I like little slick noises that you wouldn’t hear in an everyday beat--hard drums, things along that line.

Since the beginning of your career as a producer, have you always been very much against sampling?

No. I mean, I guess everybody samples because that’s how you learn--from sampling. You know, the equipment that you bought was called a sampler. So when I first got my sampler, all I knew how to do was sample. I didn’t know about all that live and midi. It was still fresh to me. I’m not really against sampling. I just choose not to sample because I got educated early on how to make your money. And the way you make your money is not by sampling. Because I went to the awards one time with somebody that was in the music industry and I saw this old guy go up for a song that I thought another producer did. I was like, ‘Why’s he getting an award?’ I just couldn’t understand that. ‘Oh, and the winner is such and such …’ This guy who was like 75 years old, that ain’t touch a button, that didn’t do nothin’ — I’m like, ‘Damn. What’s he goin’ up there for?’ And I come to find out that that was the dude that owned the sample and he was still getting a cut. I’m like, ‘Man, hard as you work to come up with banging songs, you should be the one that going up to get the recognition.’ Then they explained you don’t get no publishing off of that. I mean, there’s nothing. And every time I would sample, Puff or another person that was doin’ it would come out with the same sample and (they) would just shoot down my sample. Man, it’s like they’re stealing my song. But it wasn’t that. It was just that they had taken it.

How has your policy of not using samples proved to be beneficial?

The labels, they love it because they didn’t have to clear a sample. They would get a song from me and you could put it on the radio right now. They didn’t have to clear no samples, pay out extra money. You know, it was right on deck with me.

You also enjoy coming up with all-original beats, right?

Oh, yeah. Because if you’re like that, nobody will ever know how you’re comin’. If you’re messing with samples, you could pretty much predict what it’s gonna be. But if you don’t sample and you’re constantly changin’ up, nobody will ever know how you’re coming. You’re ahead of everybody all the time. And that’s what I’m like. That’s when I’ve got my head start — ‘OK, you want to do that? I know what I could do.’ You know, you have real time to plan and you could really execute whenever you want. But if you’re going by samples and depending on finding good records, that might slow your whole process down.

How old were you when you started working with DMX?

I’ve known DMX for 10 years and we were working since before everybody else knew him — when I was a deejay.

When you first met DMX in the early ’90s, did you see a superstar in the making? And do you attribute all his album sales to your work, his work or a combination of the two?

He was always doing his thing. I always had faith in what he did. Back in the day, he used to just battle everybody and just beat them like it’s nothing. Just like my artist Cassidy — he battles people and beats them like it’s nothing. And I think (DMX’s) success came from a collaboration of him, me and my uncles. From just having the push, each leg helped each other.

In general, do you think it’s better to have a mediocre rapper over a really great beat or to have a mediocre beat with a great rapper?

A mediocre beat with a great rapper. Because if you’ve got a great rapper, you can form a better beat around him. But if you depend on beats all the time, then there’s nowhere to go. What if that rapper has got to do an a cappella? You know, he’s gotta be flexible. So I’d rather have a better lyricist than a better beat behind the lyricist because, at the end of the day, you don’t want people buying your records because of your beats. You want people buying your records because it’s you as an artist and they respect you and you have a movement. Just like me--if I’m rappin’, I’m like ‘I don’t want to depend on no beat.’ Even though a beat can help out in a lot of ways, I want people to be like ‘Man, did you hear what he said? Oh, my gosh!’ I’d rather mess with people’s heads like that.

That’s kind of surprising coming from you, being that you’re the guy who’s responsible for making the beats.

Yeah, but I’m on both sides of the table. I’m not only thinking about myself. I’m so far beyond all that type of petty stuff. I just stayed real with it. I’d rather have a better lyricist than depending on the beat. ’Cause at the end of the day you’re still gonna have to get a beat. But you don’t gotta base everything around that beat.

You started out as a rapper before you began deejaying or making beats. Did you rap on songs that were released back then?

I just always handled everybody in my school and everybody just thought I was gonna be this great, great rapper a long time ago. But I wasn’t stayin’ around because I wasn’t makin’ no money.

Why is your G.H.E.T.T.O. Stories solo album just on Dreamworks as opposed to also being on the Ruff Ryders label?

Because I don’t have a deal with Interscope. Interscope didn’t support the funds for that deal. There’s nothing personal. I’ve got the Ruff Ryders backing me. But it’s just a business move. Interscope’s already got all the Ruff Ryders stuff. I just wanted to do something different. I just wanted to have a fresh start, a fresh new vibe. But I still take care of everything I need to take care of with Ruff Ryders, Interscope. It’s like I’m already with Interscope with the Ruff Ryders situation. So I wanted to go somewhere where I have my own space and where they didn’t have nobody like me. Interscope’s got their Dr. Dre. Dreamworks, I’m like their main person over there. As far as the hip-hop thing and with the beats, I’m like their Dr. Dre. And J Records, I’m Clive’s new Puffs.

You’re on J Records, too?

Yeah. My album’s coming out on Dreamworks, but I’m not exclusive. So I did like a real, crazy thing. I did a one-album deal with Dreamworks with a little bit of option. And I did my label deal over there with J Records, where I’m just surfacing all my artists through. ’Cause I wanted my artists to have their own space and I have my own space, so it’s not too much of a conflict of interests.

What’s your label called and who are the artists you’ve signed?

The label’s called Full Surface. And the artists are Yung Wun… He’s an Atlanta artist. He was on a lot of Ruff Ryders songs. We’ve got Mashonda. She’s an R&B artist. She sings on Eve, Jay-Z to DMX. I’ve got Cassidy. He’s the craziest rapper. He’s like my Jay-Z, my Jadakiss.

Is it very different for you to put out your own album versus putting out albums for other artists?

It’s just a whole other vibe. There’s no rules. It’s 100 percent me without a thousand other ideas that I have to listen to.

What other projects do you have in the works?

I’m trying to finish up with Ice Cube’s movie. I’m probably working on Van Damme’s new movie. It’s untitled. I’ve got Eve, DMX, Jadakiss, Styles, Drag-On. I’ve got Lil’ Kim.

You’ve said before that you already changed the hip-hop industry and could retire if you wanted to. What continues to keep you motivated?

The fans and just the love of music. And the money.

I read that a while back you were making between $80,000 and $180,000 per beat. In comparison, you sold your first beat for $4,000. Are you still making that much?

Oh, yeah. All day.

For those who don’t know already, you’re only 23 years old. Does it amaze you that you’ve accomplished so much and you’re still so young?

It definitely amazes me, but I also work extra hard. I think I work harder than a lot of people. I don’t get to sleep and I don’t get to enjoy a lot of my stuff. ’Cause I just work hard and I’m just dedicated.

Do you feel like you’ll sit back and enjoy what you’ve earned pretty soon?

Sure. That’s what I took my little break for. I just chilled out. I didn’t chill out totally because I was setting up business-wise on a whole other level. I’m trying to open up more branches so I have different sources of income coming in. And you don’t have one thing that people look at you for. They start being like, ‘OK. This guy is gonna be around.’ I’m doing it for the longevity.

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