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Zhou Brothers
Interview with DaHang Zhou by Black Dog Bone

From Murder Dog Volume 15 #2

What really impressed me about your artwork is the way you and your brother work together on a painting, and also the performance side of your work. How did you get the idea to do performances of you on stage painting? Is it something done in China?
No, the performance is not a Chinese thing, but Chinese have a long tradition for this kind of collaboration. My brother and I, since 1973 we pushed the collaboration to a different level. The performance started from a very early time. We did our first performance in Germany. Because all of our collectors and fans wanted to know how the Zhou Brothers, the collaboration, works. Then we had a show in a museum and the museum arranged that part of the exhibition is performance for the audience. That’s how we began with the performances. After that we had several important performances. One very important one was for the opening for the World Economic Forum in Switzerland. That was a very important performance because the audience came from all around the world. 250 world leaders, it was an important summit. Then recently last week we had a performance in the UN. This kind of things we have done in probably 15 performances over the last 20 years. Next July we will have another performance in the museum in Rockford.

The performances include music as well?
We have musicians come from different parts of the country and of the world, and play live. Normally the musicians don’t know each other. We chose the musicians because we feel the musicians have the ability to handle this kind of situation. We put them together. Normally they do a one hour rehearsal, sometimes not. This kind of feeling we need for our performance.

When you paint together in your studio do you also play music to inspire you?
When we paint in the studio we have music, but it’s not necessary to have music.

Do you continue to keep working together in the studio?
Of course. This is our life. Not every day, because the art creation is not like producing things in a factory. The very important thing is that you have this kind of inspiration and have the mood to create.

Are there times that you want to paint and your brother doesn’t feel like painting?
It may happen. It happens. It doesn’t matter because this kind of thing is not so predictable. Even husband and wife might have a good life together and make good love, but sometimes it’s not everybody in the same mood. We expect that.

Are there videos documenting your performances?
We do have videos. The last video we have is the performance in the Forbidden City in Beijing last October. We have a store here in our art center in Chicago. Also if anybody really need the video they can contact the Zhou B Art Center. They can send it to you. You can go to Zhoub.com.

What I’ve seen of the Zhou B Art Center is very impressive. It looks like you’re created a whole world of your own in there. How did that come about? It’s like a tribal space within a building in the middle of Chicago.

That’s true. For us we always dreamed to create this kind of space for the artists. Since 1991 my brother and I founded the Zhou Brother Art Foundation. The mission for the Foundation is to provide a lot of opportunities and chances for artists from other countries to bring them into the United States and to give them a studio to live here and work here for several months. We’ve always had this kind of passion because when we was very young we had a lot of help from our master. I think it’s important when we have a certain type of ability that we should do something like when they helped us. So that’s what we started from 1991. But we always wanted to create this kind of institution and this kind of playground and have more things going on. That’s why we founded the Art Center and now it’s more like an international artist’s playground. People from all around the world come to hang out here. They have a café here, they have everything here.

Your work can be seen there at the Art Center?

Our studio is not far from here. It’s about one block from here. Our studio is like a whole compound, the foundation and other buildings together. We also have a studio in the Art Center on the top floor. It’s about 18,000 square feet.

When you and your brother create art what media do you usually use?
Basically it’s more acrylic because it’s more easier to perform and to use. Also acrylic is fast drying.

When you perform in front of people compared to when you and your brother work in the studio, is there a different feeling in the art?
Performance is another way of working in the studio. The difference is the paintings are bigger and the time is shorter. That’s it.

There’s an urgent feeling in your art, which I really like. Some artists spend a lot of time on one painting. Your art has a spontaneous feel, like you paint without thinking or planning too much. Has that always been the feeling of your work?

For me with painting the result is not so important. The process, the development is more important. The idea you have and to put ideas from your brain onto the canvas is more interesting for me.

Since you and your brother started painting has your style gone through many changes? Does it go back and forth?

Never going back. Sometimes it may be related to something that happened before, but it always goes forward.

Murder Dog is a Rap music magazine. You’ll be reaching a different audience through Murder Dog.

It’s very interesting for me to do this interview in a Rap music magazine. In Chicago we have a big Black community. Some people are afraid to go to that area. But when my brother and I walk through that area, the Black people all recognize us on the street. They say, “Oh, the Zhou Brothers!” We have a lot of Black audience and Black fans.

Your artwork has a lot of action and spontaneity, similar to graffiti art.

I’m very interested in primitive art and rock paintings. One of you were involved in a cavern excavation in China. What was that about?
My brother and I come from China. In the very early times in China the ancient cave paintings was given a strong interest. We didn’t realize that when we were young until we pursued contemporary art. Then we looked back and realized that there was a lot of connection. Ancient cave paintings were a strong influence for us.

What made you want to start doing art together?

That was a long long time ago, in 1973 when we were in China. We both wanted to be artists, but we were separate artists. Then for one special occasion we returned back to my grandmother’s house. Our grandmother’s house, because of the political situation had become vacant. We were all sent to the village, the whole family. For that special moment when we went back to the house we felt so emotional. Then we saw the very nice classical frame on the corner of the wall and we came to the idea that we should do one painting together. That’s how we began. When we did the painting we did it without talking. We just tried to express ourselves on the same canvas. The painting is not so big, but that’s the first painting we did. It’s called “The Wave”. It has a boat on top of a wave and it has two little figures in it. That was the first painting we did together. After that, for many years we didn’t realize that was our first painting. Now when you look at that painting it’s actually our self-portrait. We didn’t realize that at the moment. Many years later we thought that was amazing. Our journey was started there.

That was a mystical painting. It was in your book, “Zhou Brothers: 30 Year Retrospective”. I see that mystical element in your work now. It’s almost like what you’re painting is not from the physical world, something from the spirit world, the unknown. Do you see that?
Maybe. It’s very symbolic, very abstract.

When you were growing up in China, during the Cultural Revolution your family was relocated to the village. Why was that? So you would understand village life?
Now I have a special connection to the village, and I understand village life very much. But before that we were considered city boys. We were sent to the village because at that time in China it was a political movement where they sent all the educated people, the scholars from the university to the village. They were saying, it doesn’t matter if you graduated from the university; that doesn’t mean you’ve completed all your education. You still have to go to the village to have another education by the farmer. That was the movement during the Cultural Revolution. My mom was a professor, so we had to go, the whole family, and move to the village. We had to live in the village and work with the village people. At that time nobody told you if you would have to work there for 1 year or 2 years. It seemed like you would be working there for the rest of your life. That was the situation.

If you knew it was a temporary situation it would have been different. But you didn’t know.

Right. I was 12 years old and my brother was 17.

When you were in China you were studying Chinese folk art. How did you get into that?
Because in China they have a very long history. The Chinese culture always combines with many different kinds of things together. In China they have 50 different kinds of minorities and they all produce their different ethnic art. In this way they have a very rich tradition. When you’re young you want to know your own culture. You want to know your own history. Your culture and your history represent a part of the human history. This kind of thing all comes together especially when you’re an artist. You want to develop, you want to search, you want to create your own style, your own language. How? You have to come from many different sources. Come from the history, come from the modern, come from different cultures, and then to put all the things together. That’s how you create your own language.

I see some artists who are influenced by cave art, but their artwork does not look original. It’s nothing new. Your art is like a whole world created by the Zhou Brothers. It’s very original. What you create was never created before.

How did you come to know our work?

I’ve always loved art, so I keep looking for new artists. I saw one of your books and I was amazed by your art. Your art has a primitive feel, but still very futuristic. There’s a lot of mystery in it.

Thank you. When you come to Chicago please come to visit us.

I’m interviewing another amazing person from Chicago—Li-Young Lee, he is my favorite poet.

I just found this out today, I had a note. Li-Young Lee is one of my early friends in Chicago. We’re good friends. Li-Young Lee is exactly my age. He has a brother, Li-Lin Lee, who is a painter. The two brothers are married to two sisters. At that time me and my brother married two sisters too. We’ve been very good friends for many years.

You have more than twenty books of your paintings published. Do you put your own books out?
No, they come from different publishers. Many of them are from Europe, from Germany. We also have two biographies published in China. Many books are about the different mediums we work with—the woodcuts or drawing or photography.

What do you see in your future? Do you feel your art will continue to change?

We always have a dream. When some people ask me, “Who do you think is the greatest artist?” I’m not thinking about the history like Picasso or something. I imagine the greatest artists are the Zhou Brothers. But the greatest artist is something we dream on. It’s not actually the Zhou Brothers, but that is my dream. I want to pursue this dream. I want to make this dream happen. In this way I have a lot of ideas and a lot of plans, but I don’t know exactly where to go or how to start. I feel that after the show in Beijing last September for our “33 Year Retrospective”. I feel in this moment our career is actually just beginning. For many years it was just the preparation. We had a lot of difficult times, and now we have better conditions to make our dream realized.

You feel that your career is just starting now. A lot of people after 33 years feel they’re done with it, but to you it’s just starting. It’s beautiful to hear that. I see a lot of nature in your art, but you live in one of the biggest cities. Where is your inspiration coming from?

Basically we had three different periods. One in the mid-eighties that we call the China period. Then from the mid-eighties to the mid-nineties was in America. After the nineties into the new century we entered another period. In the three different periods inspiration came from different sources. In the first Chinese period, all the inspiration was deeply rooted to the Chinese history and human history. We got a lot of inspiration from the Chinese culture and the human cultures. All the world is related to the history. But in the nineties in America all the inspiration came from what’s happening surrounding us. What was going on in our society. Sometimes when you have a party last night, then who you meet this morning—they’re all directly related to our work. In Europe when the Berlin Wall came down—these kinds of things came into our work. But after 2000 with like the “Open My Door” series, it started a new era. This time is more for our fantasy for the future.

Do you get a chance to spend time in nature or are you always in the city?
We consider ourselves to be a very flexible. We spent a lot of time when we were young in the village, in the mountains, in nature, all of these experiences. But in our career we pursue our art so we live in the big city. We still live in the big city, Chicago, but we also have a sculpture park in Michigan State. It’s 158 acres with all the sculptures outdoors. We spend a lot of time there for the nature. Sometimes you can’t stay in the city too long, and sometimes you can’t stay isolated too long. You keep a balance.

It’s interesting to me how in the Cultural Revolution city people were sent to the country to see that side of life. Do you think it was a good thing?
From the history when we look at it, it looks like it was not a good thing. This was something created by Mao, and they consider it in history to be the one big mistake that he made for the Cultural Revolution. But when I look at it from my artists point of view it did give me a lot of rich experience. To understand society and understand human history and to experience a lot of things that normally people never have a chance to experience. That’s why a lot of the great art and poetry doesn’t come from the normal person. If you’re a normal person you come with normal work. That’s how I look at it.

Are you talking about your art or other people’s art?
I’m talking about my art and also in the history so many great artists did not come from the great times. Usually it comes from the most difficult times of the country. That’s why when I look at the Cultural Revolution from a historical standpoint it doesn’t look like it was a great time for China. But it created the Zhou Brothers and many others like us. It enriched our Chinese culture.

You probably would have been doing something very different if you had never moved to the village at that time.

Yeah. It’s hard to say.

Living in Chicago now, do you miss your country?
I don’t really miss my country because I feel I’ve already lived there. In these last couple of years I’ve been to China, and China today is a very different country. It has all kinds of new changes happening there. Even though I try to cut my connections to China, actually you can never cut it. Your connection, your heart is still connected there. The culture, everything is still inside you.

How did you start painting so big?

My background, I studied theater. My brother did also. So we had to produce these kinds of backdrops for the movies. When you do backdrops you create a movie set as big as a stadium. Then you have to finish the set in only one or two nights and make it ready for filming. This kind of big work for us and also the stage set is natural. To handle this kind of thing has become very easy for us. This is one reason. The second thing is that when you have a bigger space to move around in you feel much more free. But the big work not everybody can handle it because you need a lot of energy. If you have to have much bigger energy to handle the big canvas then you can handle it.

In your art I always see a certain shape of a figure, like a tribal person dancing. What does that represent?
The symbol of the human, how we developed it? This came from many years development. You see some symbols continue to repeat again and again. This symbol has become one of our vocabulary, part of our language. My brother and myself, we’re very active when we paint. The symbols keep reappearing in our work. Sometimes the symbols come from him, sometimes from myself. Sometimes we erase them, sometimes we’d destroy them. But this kind of thing has become very interesting for our collaboration. The destruction. When you create you have to destroy. Then bring it back again and destroy again. This kind of fighting and development is a part of the energy for our art.

Do you do most of your work on canvas or do you use paper too?
We do most of the work on canvas. We also use paper and we do woodcuts and sculpture. We try to have the ability to handle any situation, any medium. It’s not like some others who say, if I don’t have oil paint I cannot paint. Or, if I don’t have a blue color I cannot paint. If I don’t have a canvas…we paint anyway. We don’t need anything. One of the very interesting performances we did in Cologne, Germany. That performance happened on a big canvas but only happened with a pencil and burgundy, red wine. With only red wine and pencil the whole performance was done. This kind of thing displays our way of thinking. The medium itself, the material, is not so important. What’s important is how sensitive to creativity the artist is.

When you first started creating art you probably had a certain feeling. Is that same feeling driving you?
No, because when we started we came from a very classical, traditional education. You draw an egg for many days. Only draw the egg. You draw the object. If it takes you two months, you draw the object. Very traditional. You practice your color, mixing colors. That’s a study that only provides you with a basic foundation and some basic skills. But when you want to reach to another higher level you find one day that you have to throw all the skills you have away, and then follow your feelings.

Do you come across some current artists that are very interesting to you?

Since 1997 we were teaching in one of the most prestigious academies in Europe, in Salzburg Austria. Every year until now we have taught so many students, 100 of the students from all around the world. We often see many different talents. You see their talent today, but it doesn’t mean that their talent will continue to the next level. It really depends. What we can do in the school is provide them and show them the key—the key to the gate of the wisdom. Other than that, they have to depend on themselves. Many many artists there, in the beginning you see their talent but later the talent is gone. Art is one of the most difficult careers to guarantee. There’s no guarantee to be a great artist or to sell your art.

You can only teach technique, but you can never make somebody into a great artist. What is coming up next from the Zhou Brothers?

Right now we’re in the situation where we’re going back to the big circle. I’m standing on the spot ready for the new beginning. That’s how I feel, but we have many things happening every day in every month and every year. Our artistic schedule has many exhibitions planned and many projects and many commissions. But at this time I’m just trying to settle down and understand myself, and try to see from here how I’m going to develop and pursue for the next 30 years.

It seems that this is a very important time in your life. You’re coming into a new life. We might find a whole different side of the Zhou Brothers soon.

Exactly.

 



Zhou