Dizzee Rascal
East London, UK
By Matt Sonzala

Where exactly are you from?
East London, UK. It’s the part of London that was in the First World War, the Blitz, that’s the part of London I’m from. From the opposite side to where the Queen lives. Jack the Ripper is from down the road from where I’m from.

A lot of people have a hard time categorizing you. Some people might call it hip hop, some might call it garage, some might call it drum n bass…

I don’t think people should try to categorize it because I’m still developing as an artist. I’m a decent way through my second one really and I’m improving lyrically. So what I do is just kind of a variation. It’s more about stretching the art form. I could make an off key beat on purpose, and challenge myself to spit on it and make it sound good. I put a lot of thought into it. I can rap, so that’s where the hip hop side comes to it, I’m definitely a rapper, I’m at a lot of rapper’s levels, I’ll say that with confidence. But the beats…because of the environment I grew up in, drum n bass—for people who don’t know what that is, it’s a lot of rave culture basically, hardcore house or whatever—that had an effect on me. Also I listened to a lot of hip hop when I was growing up and even rock.

Here in the states, we see the rave culture as being a Black thing at all. It’s more White kids with techno. In the UK, is the rave scene separated with different musics?

It’s a mixed thing. Drum n bass was very much Black and White. Drum n bass especially. Over in America I don’t know the effect it’s had but in England everyone came together. And garage kind of did the same kind of thing. There’s the kind of stupid garage that a lot of people associate garage with, but it started getting more street. I was always making my own type of shit from school days on the computer. I would just see what I could make with the sounds I had and I would experiment. And the more I did it the more I started to cultivate a sound. By the time I got into a real studio I already knew what I was doing.

You’re 19 now, when did you start making beats?

I started making beats around 14 or 15. I just used Cubase, a mini disc player, a stack, CD player, 2 speakers, a tiny little mixing board, a purple one, I remember. Then I started using a proper studio.

Why do people always say you made the beats on a Playstation?

Not the beats on the album. I knew how to make them because of that program Music 2000. I know some people that have made tunes on Playstation and have cut them onto dub plates and they’ve become big tunes. The beats on my album were made on Logic. I don’t try to get too technical hardware-wise. That’s not my concern. I always think of a way to manipulate a sound just by thinking about it, not by twiddling. Now we got Protools so it’s different. But on the first album I wasn’t sitting there for hours seeing what that does and that does. I heard it, it works. I worked at as quick a pace as I can and when it was done it was just done. It was time for lyrics. I like to leave a lot of space for vocals.

Did you do every beat on the album?

I didn’t do three. "Just A Rascal" was brought to me, I just spat on it. "Fix Up, Look Sharp", I wrote, it, I arranged it, but the beat was done by somebody else. You know that was a time when people were still calling me garage and I wanted to show my versatility. Because I can spit to all tempos. And it was a time where the whole Kanye West thing where he’s speeding up the vocals, I thought that was wicked, but I didn’t want to copy that. So on the Billy Squier vocals I just kept it the way it was. I felt that’d be interesting cause that’s a totally left world for me from what I do. It’s just a universal beat, the essence of hip hop.

Did Roll Deep come out of the garage scene?

I left Roll Deep. With Roll Deep, we was all kind of doing different things. We were doing a lot of raves together, a lot of radio. Groups like So Solid Crew and that, they were already quite big and they had the raves already readymade. I joined Roll Deep last. I was about 17 or 16. It was a good experience. We went around and did loads of raves. But even before that, I had already made three beats that were getting rotation. I was cutting them on dub plates and giving them to a couple DJ’s. I was solo then as well. I was only with Roll Deep for about 2 years. I MC’d with loads of other crews in London as well like More Fire Crew, Nasty Crew, Pay As You Go. I was just everywhere already. I put a couple out on the underground but I wanted to concentrate on making an album. Making an album was a big achievement for me, to see if I could do it. I wanted to be as creative as I could. I could sit there and make a typical hip hop album, that’s not hard man. I was still in the street mentality, I was still in the streets then, I was still drinking, all kinds of bullshit, I was around, so, what little change I was making off whatever… I started making more money off of music than selling weed or street robbery and all that bullshit so it drew me more towards the music. Plus doing raves and all that. It was just a mad time for me so it really came out in the music in the album. That time man.

We don’t get a big picture of England here in the United States, except for maybe what we might see on comedy shows or some bullshit. Can you compare the streets where you came up, I know you mentioned crack a while ago…

People don’t even realize there’s Black people over there. It’s calmed down slightly in the past year, about 2-3 years ago was about the worst it’s ever been I think. There was a big influx. A lot of guns came in, a lot of crack. I think they’re supposed to be coming from Eastern Europe. There’s a lot of guns coming in. A lot of people taking to the roads. I didn’t get into the crack thing. Some of my friends, some of them are still on it now, I just sold a little bit of weed, from young, back in school. There started to be a lot of shootings and people started linking the shootings to the raves and that culture. It’s similar to here with hip hop, it’s a similar situation.

They blame the music there too?

They did for a bit. They tried to. Projects, government housing, you don’t see that side of things on TV. You’ll usually see The Office, Buckingham Palace. All that kind of shit. Government housing is the same all over, it’s the same thing as over here. Quite high unemployment, you know, people do what they need to do for the money. As for them blaming it on the music and that, I’ve seen people get shot at raves, I’ve seen all kinds of shit, I’ve seen it in the streets. My opinion is if something’s gonna happen it’ll happen at McDonalds or it’ll happen at the train station. If them two energies collide, if they find themselves in the same place at the same time it’s gonna go off anywhere. Raves are meant to be places where most people do gather round after a hard week and they want to let out their energies. It’s something for fun.

Some people might not even know what a rave is.

A lot of times it’s the clubs. But we got hip hop clubs there as well. Hip hop’s massive in England. Dancehall. It’s club culture basically, but we call it raves.

Who were some of the hip hop artists you came up listening to?

2Pac, Jay-Z is the man. I don’t focus on any one rapper. I just try to respect the qualities of every rapper I could. I really got into the South shit about 4 years ago, Three-6 Mafia, Cash Money, Master P and No Limit. I remember Soulja Slim, I only ever heard one song, but I just would repeat it, repeat it repeat it over and over and over, "It’s hard to maintain, soulja life mentality." The South is just starting to get big in England now. Ludacris is good, UGK definitely. Bun B, every time I listen to it more and more. I’m not ashamed to highlight a rapper’s name, I will say it, this man is good. I’m about the art form. Bun B man, he reps for the South. E-40, some of the rappers that people might stray away from because they’re not as commercial as they want to hear cause they’re actually doing something. They’re stretching the art form.

Did Pac have a big impact on the UK?

A lot of people listen to him, but I feel a lot of time people take the wrong message from him. All the good shit that man said and people are still on the Thug Life thing. He said a lot, man. He schooled the world. Sometimes people take the wrong shit.

Would you hear Pac on the radio in the UK?

Yeah, they play him a lot. The thing is he never came to England. Pissed, man. I never got to see him. That’s something I would have loved to see in my lifetime. People love Snoop back home, Eminem, Nas. We grew up on the shit a lot of people grew up listening to, but a lot of time people don’t go in as deep. I can name check a lot of South rappers, West Coast rappers and East Coast rappers that people might not have heard of cause I’m deep into it.

I’ve always kind of looked for someone from outside the US to come with something that fits within hip hop, but doesn’t just copy what the US is doing. I like the fact that there’s someone in England who could actually speak to people here in the streets, whether they know it or not. Do you feel like people understand you?

I think a lot of people get it and a lot of people don’t as well. That album was extreme, it’s one of them ones you either love it or you hate it. Sometimes I wonder if it’s what I’m actually saying, or is it my voice or is it what I’m doing with the actual music, the beats? Or is it everything together? I think it’s wicked to have been all over America. I’ve been to Texas, I’ve been to the South been to the East been to the West. This is the home of hip hop. We grew up listening to it. And I get to talk to people like Bun B, someone I listen to. Start meeting interesting people and seeing what their culture really is. Aside from just the music industry bullshit that can come with it.

You said that things were getting crazy in England, I know there’s guns there, less than here…

Yeah, this place is bigger as well though.

Would you say you come from a violent place?

East London? It’s violent. There’s other violent places in London. Inner city London, some people come and they won’t see it for that. Most people that were born into the suburbs, they’ll just go to work and they’ll just hear about it, might read it in a newspaper. Some people, like I say, we come from government housing, we know it, we might even be a part of it. I’m from that side, Council Estates, what you might call the projects. It ain’t all to the same scale as over here, but it’s the same idea.

Are you from government housing?

Yeah, from a council estate. That’s what they’re called over there.

Is there a lot of music going down where you’re from?

Yeah, pirate stations. A lot of pirate stations. They’re normally based in abandoned flats in council estates. DTI will come along and try to lock things off but the station comes on again. And that’s the real way, aside from the raves for people to really get heard. And I think over the past two years is when people really started to come with their own shit. Like whatever they’re making, on Logic, Playstation, they cut it to dub, they’ve got airplay to play it. Whether it’s a 1, 2, 3, set, I was doing 1 o’clock in the morning till 3 o’clock, that’s how I started and then went to school the next day. That kind of shit, that’s the way a lot of people grow man, I come from that. There ain’t no other avenue. Most people from the street, from the road, there’s not a lot of avenues to make it.

Pirate radio is cats from the street getting some equipment and putting out their own radio station for their neighborhoods?

Yeah. Some of the big ones, Rinse FM, Déjà vu, they’re both East London based, and they’re the two largest ones, all across London and some of the surrounding counties, they’re like the most popular ones. But they’re still street based. That’s the way man.

Do pirate radio helped you to come up? Kind of like mixtapes here?

Yeah. I made a couple mix CD’s as well. They got a bit of circulation, but that’s a culture that’s starting to come up now. At home there’s a lot of emulation of what happens here. People really respect what’s going on here. But my thing was really Pirate Radio. And I started playing raves all over the place like I said with Roll Deep. And I was doing something different even then making my own beats. These beats were hard, they were grimy, they were street. I was that kid in the hooded top and the trainers they didn’t want to let in the club, but I got away with it cause I was Mcing. So it was a whole next generation with music that hadn’t been done before. True to the English side, because I mean I didn’t try to make hip hop or anything in particular.

I know some of the raves back then were huge and you performed in front of huge crowds, how is it different now that you’re a worldwide star but you been doing big shows.

I supported Jay Z when I was 17, that was a big step. When I first started, I went on stage with the mentality that I was just gonna say it, I was gonna spit. I was a DJ first, but I wasn’t big. I was 14, and at the same time I was making beats. The Mcing part came a bit later. And it was like a job thing to me at first. I made a couple of lyrics and tried to be funny on the mic. Then I started taking it more serious and I started actually saying something. I used to just go to the raves and I would just straight say it and for some reason people were listening. And the more and more raves I went to I started to stand out and people started going mad. It was crazy for about a year or two years and then there’d be the raves when people were just standing there hard headed and just looking. The ones who think they should be MCs maybe. That stuff is all over the world though, people just spectating. I did the big crowds and I did all the grimy places as well. I was in all different kinds of environments.

Are there people over there who don’t give a fuck about the American side of hip hop and only like what you guys do over there?

More and more now than ever. There’s still the fake hip hop heads, who are kind of respected by everyone because they’re making music that sounds like what’s currently going on here in the States. It’s kind of backwards to me. Even with fake American accents, saying English things. I’ve come totally away from that. That was why British hip hop wasn’t moving at all. I had to do something totally different. Don’t ever call me a UK hip hop artist. I’m a world artist. I might stop and do folk music tomorrow. I’ll still make it sound bad. Ya hear me? Fuck it.

How hard was it for you to break into the BBC and stations like that. Were there DJ’s who showed love?
Semtex showed love. Semtex was gonna sign me but it didn’t go. "I Love You" was big on the underground. A lot of radio stations were leery of me, cuz I was fresh from pirate radio, fresh from these raves, people heard about the shootings all the time. Whatever all that, so it’s a big adjustment to make. For them it’s a gamble to put me on there, cuz my mouth is foul man. There was no censorship. I had to learn to tone it down and everything. I got a lot more love than I thought I would get. People like Jo Wiley, Sara Cox and some other people, they opened their minds to it, and they played it on mainstream times and I think they even got in trouble for it. But they opened a lot of peoples minds to it. Bassment Jaxx, that was another one. They used to hear me on pirate radio, and hooking up with them, they’re like the Neptunes, and if you ask me I think they’re just as good. They do a different thing, but you know, that status, and working with them, that took me to another world that I might not have reached. So for them to take an interest in me like that, that was a big step for me as well man, most definitely. That helped me get played aside from "I Love You."

Did 1Xtra coming out help as well?

Yeah cause they’re kind of like mainstream radio but still in touch with the underground.

Is your new album different from your last one?

Up a level. This time around we’re on Protools and that. Sounds bigger for a start. I put my heart into Boy In the Corner. I put my soul into this one, this one that’s coming in a bit. My head was cloudy then, preoccupied, I was doing it, like I said, I was just straight off the roads then.

How much did you have written and recorded before you got your deal?

A lot of it was done. The album was done before we signed, the album was done so I signed over a completed album. But the difference between then and now is I was on pirate radio a lot so I was always writing. This time, it’s different, I’m traveling around a lot. Obviously press comes into it and promotion and all that so it’s adjusting to all that as well. And up and down it coincides with the actual art work. So this one I’m really juggling around.

Do you like that side of the business?

It can make you strong. It’s the hustle side. I know how to hustle. It’s the hustle part. You see a lot of bullshit. It’s tiring as fuck. The other thing is man the street shit. A lot of people can’t come away. A lot of rappers, I’ve got friends that are just in and out of prison, friends that might not being doing as much, they’re on the roads, selling drugs, they have beefs and everything and to completely come away from that it’s just difficult. So you got all kinds of things on your mind as well. People don’t realize that and the next thing is just getting on with that with all that in your head. It’s a lot to juggle man. I’ll hopefully be in it for a long time. I’m thankful for everything I’m doing now. I could be doing a lot worse. I’m looking to push forever. It’s just starting man.

What are your long term goals with this?

I want to have maximum credibility. Some people have achieved wicked mainstream success, but they ain’t got as much credibility. I’d love to have that man. Get as much credibility as I can man as an artist as a producer and I also want to branch out because I haven’t got to work with that many people. People haven’t completely got their heads around what I do. I basically want to have an affect on the whole music scene. Maybe be responsible for some positive change in the way people think about music.

Is there an American artist that you would love to hear on one of your tracks?

Oh man there’s loads. The list goes on man, the list goes on. Ludacris would sound wicked on it. E-40, that would be something. Pedey Crack, I like Pedey Crack, he would sound wicked I think. There’s a few that may like to do some different shit.

You said to me earlier that you were getting tired of the gangsta shit. Are you getting tired of the way hip hop is going right now?
I mean I respect it. Cause people are talking reality and what they know and everything. It’s not the fact that I’m tired of the gangsta shit, it’s just that it feels like it’s going in circles and circles. It’s been for about ten years now, people been saying the same story for like ten years and there’s so many gangsta rappers who’s word play is like amazing, but they’re using it to just talk about that when they should be stretching out, stretching the art form. Branching out. When you’re that bad, you can make something, you can make anything sound good. No matter what the subject is if you’re that bad. Because you’re street enough, but you’re literate enough to carry it off. People will hear if you’re street, if you’re gangsta, they know. Like I said, that’s something that I’ve grown up around. It’s around me, so it’s a constant reminder. Most people will feel like there’s no escape. With music, there’s no limits to music. There’s endless possibilities with music. I feel like hip hop is putting itself in a corner, and it’s limiting itself. That’s what I meant by that. But I know there’s a next generation and a lot of people my age, hopefully they’re gonna come with something new. And I hope to have a positive effect on how people think about music in general.

Who else should we be looking out for from the UK?

You already know about The Streets, I’ll be interested to know about his second album and see what that does and Wiley as well. There’s others, even like me, I still got work to do in England.

One thing that always interested me about the UK is that y’all know how to make some stars. The music machine in the UK is pretty intense.

Well there ain’t been a lot of stars from my environment. I think that’s gonna start happening more and more. It’s just about people just waking up. It’s all good to love American music, it’s standard, we grew up on it, but some people need to start thinking for themselves and I think that’s going to start happening more and more. For the street side of shit, there’s more to come I hope.

Would you feel comfortable performing in some of the more street venues in the US?

Yeah most definitely. I performed in some of the most grimy places in England, venue wise. I been doing that, and it’s more about MCing to another crowd than how street I am, that’s secondary. That’s gonna be a part of me forever. I was never one of those boys that would try to clash, try and battle every rapper I come across. I’m more on like, "I wonder what we sound like together?" I’ve had a couple of battles, I never chose them. I’ve got a real passion for music. So I want to hear how them two voices sound, it’s more of that first and foremost.

Can you tell me about how you ended up getting stabbed?

That was some coward shit, that was some beef shit, I had some altercations before. That was some pussy shit. It took 4 people to get me. In the papers and that it said I was laying there and it wasn’t even like that. I was walking and my shirt was just dripping blood. People tried to stab me a few times in my lifetime. That was the first time I actually got stabbed, I was still standing still walking. Four people, four knives, there’s only so much you can do innit? And it sounds like some movie shit, it don’t even sound real, I can’t say it to make it sound any realer. That’s the way it happened. That’s that, and the next thing the police obviously they’re interrogating you, they want to know who did it. And I’m not telling them and I’m not telling the press. People got their theories about who they think it is but my theory is and what I live by is what’s on the road not a concern of the world. Don’t go into big details, the road’s the road man. I was stabbed right before my album came out. It was a mad time. It was in Cypress, a Greek Island. And when I come back I didn’t even go home or nothing, I was walking around in the streets, people were like what are you doing? It was a mad, confusing time for me. UGK, I didn’t listen to them from young. I first listened to them when this happened to me (lifts his shirt and shows scar from stab wound). First time I come here, LA I bought their greatest hits. And I felt ill. I got stabbed and I took myself out in 2 days on some 2 Pac shit. I couldn’t stay in hospital and I was riding around on my bike and everything and I think that made me a bit ill. I was in my room, crazy, up and down I was waking up at mad times. I was stabbed about 5 times, so my body was going mad, and I was listening to my album and I was listening to UGK stuff. And that got me through. That really got me through. It was enlightening to me. Maybe because I had never heard nothing like that before. Country rap music. That’s some real shit I was listening to there. And I was just listening to it over and over and over. I remembered them from Big Pimpin’ innit? A lot of people didn’t know who they were.