Thugged Out (Bullett Boy/Mutt Dog/Mafioso)
Interview by Matt Sonzala | August 2003

All three of you are brothers? How did you all start rapping?

Bullet Boy: Me and Mutt Dog we had got in a little trouble and went to the joint. Mafioso, he done caught a little trouble, but he didn't go to the joint but he did a little time. Mafioso was always rapping. Me and Mutt Dog we wasn't really rapping, that wasn't our thing, we were just doing our thing. But when we was in the joint we started rapping. He got out first but Mafioso didn't see eye to eye with him, and then I got out and Mutt went back, and I got out and Mafioso was rapping but I was just like in his group but not in his group just listening to him rap. When Mutt Dog got out, it started going down. We been rapping trying to get on, then Mafioso heard we was bringing the thunder so he got off in our group and we formed Thugged Out. It's been about 2 and a half years.

Mutt Dog: We was entertainers all our life, we was dancers. We won three talent shows three years straight. But our guy died, he drowned, he was one of the leaders of the group, Mitchie, so we faded away from the dance group and we came up with the rap group. When we came out with the first album, we already had respect before the album, before rapping. We just started rapping because people knew what we did. We changed our life from being negative to positive, instead of doing it, we talking about it, rapping, so people looked at us as rappers.

I heard you got adult sentences when you were 15 years old.

Mutt Dog: We were the youngest people in the penitentiary. We had went to jail for robbery. We was out here on the streets living wild. We had got 4 years and that's what really changed us because instead of us going to the penitentiary with a big head going wild, we came from the old school, so we kind of knew more. We had the street game, now we got the penitentiary game. That changed our life a lot. Gave us a lot of insight.

Bullet Boy: It changed our message with Thugged Out and our lyrics. We tell them that whatever you do it's gonna come back to you. If it's good it's gonna come back to you, if it's wrong it's gonna come back to you. Regardless, so we know all the consequences, all the repercussions of when you do crimes. That's why we try to put it out in our lyrics. We tell them there's repercussions for everything you do.

What penitentiary did you go to?

Mutt Dog: Westfield. That was when we was young and dumb.

Y’all were in jail from when you were 15 – 18 years old?

Mutt Dog: I went back to jail for attempted murder on the police but then they dropped it down. I did like nine more months. I was ready to get out, but I wasn't. I'm not gonna say that I was meant to go back but it might have took that to give me the full picture of who I am today. We had a hard life, but I'm glad we lived that life and survived it because we wouldn't know the things we know now and the way we can teach it to the youth.

What part of Gary are y’all from?

Bullet Boy: 5th Avenue, and that 5th Avenue has a reputation. It's straight wild. We almost as blessed to come up on 5th Avenue and survive. My brother, Mafioso, he been shot up. Me and Jeff been through altercations with shootings. Me and my other brother been in the penitentiary. When you in jail you miss a lot of things, people die. You looking at life, you never know what's gonna happen. It's a risk, living in Gary on 5th Avenue.

What makes 5th Avenue so bad?

Mafioso: Right now, we like changed the game, you know what I'm sayin? All the beef is dead and over with. Our side, they side, people are joining. Now we just look over all the things that we organized. So we look at them cool, party with them and everything. But you know, back in the day it was really just gang banging. Everybody was broke, robberies, drug deals, everything.

Mutt Dog: But you know, you put yourself in a corner and you gonna come out. Ain't nobody had no jobs, ain't nobody had no money. Thugged Out saved our lives because we was dope. And instead of people looking at us mean, they like, they doing something, I like they songs. And it stopped a lot of beef just as individuals. We don't got cars, we don't need all that, cause we got clout, we got respect. Only thing we really know is just to rap and teach the youth.

Bullet Boy: We don't need all that cause we ain't never had it all our life. So we ain't really in it for all that, I just want to do something and if you gonna do something, be the best you can be. That's how we feel about it.

What's one of the songs where you really are trying to give a message to the youth?

Bullet Boy: "My Mind." The song goes through our everyday thoughts. The song is our life, being broke, never having nothing. Just expressing our feelings in the song.

Mutt Dog: On this song we telling em like don't try to look down on this man cause you got more than what he got. Cause we all still equal. A lot of people look down on people because of what he ain't got. They don't look for the person he really is. That's the point we trying to stress on that.

Bullet Boy: It's a real message in that song cause we never had nothing and people look at us like aw y'all think you're better than us. We ain't never had nothing, we the underdogs. We jiggy on stage, but outside of that, when we leave off that stage a lot of people look at us like going back to square one. I want to kick that song the chorus cause I want you to hear what we saying on "My Mind."

All: My mind was brainwashed, thinking everything wrong was right/My mind was struggling times and I carried that chrome at night/cause I know how it feels, and I know how it be when nobody want to be with you when you ain't got money/My mind was brainwashed thinking everything wrong was right….

Bullet Boy: We hot because of our music. The shit we spit, you would have to live to talk about cause we too deep. Our lyrics go into detail. Ain't no beating around the corner. If you listen to the record you'll understand it. That's why we named the album Na' What, cause a lot of people want to see us fall. But nothing can stop us, a bullet can't stop us right now. We so focused and motivated to just get through the door.

How did you start harmonizing like that together?

Mutt Dog: Man, really what it was we was focused on Bone.

Bullet Boy: We wasn't thinking about us, that was a long time ago. But we just liked everybody's songs. And me and Mafioso used to be at the crib on 36th and Pennsylvania and we used to always be singing Bone.

Mutt Dog: Our family, we really got a history of entertainers. My brother can sing, my other brother can sing, my mama, if you think we really jiggy, my mama crazy jiggy. When I met my mama 13 years ago, we never knew my mama or our daddy, I knew my mama when we was 13 and I knew where we got our entertaining, our on time with beats.

I was here about 2 years ago and you were telling me that when you were coming out there were no jobs, and I have heard that from a lot of people. How is it today? Is it getting any better?

Bullet Boy: Our mayor Scott King, he's doing a lot of stuff so far as making the city look good so when people drive through from out of town… So far as the crime kind of slowed down cause we got federal agents here, but G.I. speak for itself. Gary speak for itself. Read a newspaper that focus in on Gary and it's wild.

Mafioso: Your age limit here is like 21 years. It's bad here. My brother was with me when I got shot. He grabbed me and took me to the hospital.

Bullet Boy: There were 15 niggas, he got shot I was the only one right there. Everybody gone. I picked him up, put him on my shoulder and ran with him while the nigga was shooting. I didn't care. I been bust at, man, I don't care about that, cause he know right now that I'm ready for anything. I didn't give a fuck. I been through that all my life. If it's my time to go, it's my time to go. I didn’t get hit one time, I didn't worry about it. You know what I'm sayin'?

Mutt Dog: That's a whole life. That's your whole life flash before your eyes. You see your brother on the ground right in front of you I mean that's your brother. Same mama same daddy.

Bullet Boy: My other brother got shot trying to sell our CD. It's wild G.I. speak for itself.

Mutt Dog: There's a police station on 5th Avenue and they don't care. There's been like 5 murders 2 blocks away. Scott King got the streets like, aw look at the baseball field. But the streets don't change none. Cause ain't nothing out here. Ain't no jobs, ain't no money. If you sell dope you going to jail. So you go rob a drug dealer, go get the money and spend it.

Bullet Boy: Can't rob a nigga with a job cause he probably got plastic. Everybody rap about that cause they think that's the way to get out the ghetto. But some people ain't got it so what can they do if they ain't got it?

Mutt Dog: We trying to give people money. We trying to give people a life. Cause if we make money, we not gonna be like Michael Jackson. We coming down here and we putting life down here. Cause we know, we got the whole city on our back like please make it.

Bullet Boy: Other rappers ain't lived like G.I. lived. You can be a thug, yeah you a thug, and I understand that, but it all depends on how thuggish is you. You can come down here and live like a thug, it's a whole different thing cause you can get capped real quick. You think you tough down there and you come out here, everybody know everybody. So like in New York, you can go clap a nigga and be off on the other side of town. You clap a nigga out here you can't go nowhere. You got to get out of town. Cause you could go right around the corner and bow, it's over with. Everybody know everybody. There's just 2 or 3 different clubs. You can't do nothing. So you got to really respect the streets.

Mutt Dog: We been through this city, people know us period, from when we was out here being Thugged Out for real? We had a ringing, ringing, ringing name. If you hear something from us about the streets, we telling you for real, cause we lived it for real. Nobody know G.I. better than us. You could go on the corner and ask about us and they gonna tell you. We did the life and we trying to teach the people that this ain't the way to go. We talk about, if you hit the corner with the nigga on the side of you, is he gonna be the one to tell? So it ain't even worth it, cause we been there.

Are there any opportunities in Gary?

Mutt Dog: Nothing, this is our life. If we don't make it through this rap game, it's over.

Bullet Boy: If the industry would come down to Gary, they gonna see there's talent. What we doing is we making a way. You don't want to hear us? We coming to your doorstep.